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    42 Replies Latest reply on Mar 7, 2009 4:18 PM by Broc51

    Where do we go, when the banks say "NO"?

    tim13ga Wayfarer
      We all know this story. We have a need to make money, and starting a business is our best option. We have done the research, and have even written out our business plan. Now comes the funding. For the purpose of this question, lets say the Checkbook and the Savings Account will not even come close to the needed figure. The bank says no because you don't have a history of borrowing money. (Most people don't know that not borrowing money lowers your credit score.) Friends are broke, Family is also broke. You look at the sites like Prosper and GoBig, but they either want too much up front money to post the request or your credit score is not high enough. Some angel networks have application fees or reading fees.

      Are there any legit Entrepreneurial Foundations out there?

      Are there any legit small loan, bad credit companies that will work with start ups?

      Are we who do not worship debt enough to have a FICO score worthy of Nirvana, destined to never get the business funding that would change our lives for the better?

      Ask a millionaire that does not borrow money what their FICO is, and they will tell you it is zero. Just ask Dave Ramsey of the Dave Ramsey Show.

      Thanks for your time...
      Tim...
        • Re: Where do we go, when the banks say "NO"?
          LUCKIEST Guide
          Where do we go, when the banks say "NO"??

          Tim, Not sure I understand this post. Are you looking for FUNDS??

          Are there any legit Entrepreneurial Foundations out there that will lend you money?? YES

          Are there any legit small loan, bad credit companies that will work with start ups?? YES
          BUT you do NOT want to get involved with them. BE VERY CAREFUL.

          You will get some great answers to your post. Choose Carefully.

          Have you spoken to SCORE?? SCORE is FREE.

          LUCKIEST
          1 of 1 people found this helpful
            • Re: Where do we go, when the banks say "NO"?
              tim13ga Wayfarer
              Luckiest,

              Yes, I am absolutely looking for funds. Please see post (Caregiver... With a plan... Needs $15,000 unsecured loan.)

              I got to this financial disaster of my life by: (I do not borrow any money unless I absolutely have to.) My wife had a stroke in May of '07, I lost my Architectural Drafting job in July of '07 due to the housing crunch, and I can't seem to buy a job. I am to the point that I absolutely have to borrow money.

              I have a business that I want to start, and I have written the plan. I would be happy to send the plan to you.

              I have looked at many "business loan" sites, and most want a score that a bank would be happy with. There are angel sites, but most have some sort of application or reading fees.

              I know that there are Entrepreneurial Foundations. I have even applied to one. I was hoping that you could list some that you know about.

              I guess I am looking for someone to "Manually Underwrite" my loan request. I hear people tell me that they "Wish me good luck" but I need someone to take the risk and actual help me by funding my loan.

              I will look into score.
              Tim...
            • Re: Where do we go, when the banks say "NO"?
              DomainDiva Ranger
              When the banks say no...you go to your IRA and savings...then you go to your jewelry. (I have done these things so this is advice from experience).

              In addition..I have the credit score from Nirvana and NO DEBT. It can be done, but it takes discipline....like using credit cards for everything and paying them off each and every month.

              Like having credit cards with high limits that you use one a year at Starbucks and pay off immediately!!!

              Dave Ramsey has mostly great ideas...his ideas about the FICO are totally outdated and will do nothing for you except keep you down...does not matter how much money you have. FICO is all about HOW you manage your debt to equity ratio.
                • Re: Where do we go, when the banks say "NO"?
                  tim13ga Wayfarer
                  Dear Diva,

                  If only there was an IRA to take a 40% hit on to cash out. Don't have that source. Same with Jewerly. I have already sold guitars, guns, and everything else of value to pay the household bills.

                  I look at the Fico score this way. It is the pride of the middle class, the curse of the lower class, and not even bothered with by the upper class.

                  When it comes to credit cards, I just don't go there. I pay for things as I earn the money. I have always been that way. Borrowing money when you don't need it so you can borrow more money when (and if) you do need it does not make sence to me. All this borrowing to create a number that pays so little importance to actualy paying the money back, is interest money that could go to other places in your portfolio. When you look at the criteria that goes into the score, the number is based on what kinds of debt you go into, how often you go into debt, the level of debt, excetera. Very little weight is given to paying the debt back on time, yet most people feel that repayment is what the score means.

                  The one time I need to borrow is why I find myself in this position.

                  I hope this helps you understand why I need to look for others sources.

                  Thanks for your post.
                  Tim...
                    • Re: Where do we go, when the banks say "NO"?
                      DomainDiva Ranger
                      How you manage your money is your way of managing it. I just don't agree that people with FICO scores from Nirvana are debt ridden idiots. Imposing your views on something or someone because your views are being dictated by an outside source (Ramsey) does not seem to make much sense.

                      If a person can be debt free with a great FICO and NO DEBT....or they understand HOW to structure debt...ie: not borrwing what they don't already have the money in reserve for...or using OPM and zero percent interest...why should they not pursue a FICO from Nirvana? The credit cards I use garner airline miles which I have used for travel for my team members in the start up as well as grandkids visiting and being able to go to graduations. By the way..Ramseys position is that MOST PEOPLE do not use airline miles...he needs to call me for his reality check.

                      In the end...it's all about how savvy a consumer is when playing the game. Not letting the financial institutions win and having the personal discipline to make it work.
                        • Re: Where do we go, when the banks say "NO"?
                          tim13ga Wayfarer
                          Dear Diva,

                          I respectfully disagree.

                          If an imposition of ideas or values is placed anywhere here, it is by the FICO score. This is what I mean.

                          Take a driving record as an example. A drivers record, is a record of the violations that they have accumulated over their years of driving. There are two ways of getting a perfect drivers record. The first is to obey every traffic law. You have to never run a red light, never speed, never have a tail light out, never have a simple lapse of control over your car. The second way to have a perfect driving record is to NEVER DRIVE. Does your insurance company care how you got such a perfect driving record? Nope!

                          But how do you get a good "Credit Score" the only way I know is by going into "debt." Paying bills on time is only a small part of the equation. A very small part. But people are judging you by the credit score. I tried to rent an apartment and the agent had this shock that I don't borrow money. "Not even for a car?" she asked me. She would not rent to me because my score is too low. She told me that I would have to have higher score in order to rent there. In other words, I would have to go into debt for something that I did not need, just to rent an apartment. That is where I see the imposition of an idea.

                          Try this as an experiment (only when you feel that you can make do without the credit cards) Stop using any and all credit cards, drive a paid for car, and pay all of your bills on time. What would happen to your credit score from Nirvana? It will go down. It will only stay high by going into more debt. The paying of the bills on time will not keep it up.

                          Question: What do Credit Card Companies call people who pay thier balances on time?
                          Answer: "Deadbeats." (you aren't earning them any money)

                          If you are using your airline miles on a regular basis, you are the exception, not the rule. The Airline companies themselves are the ones that say the vast majority of airline miles are not used. In fact there are charities where you can donate unused airline miles, and from what I hear they are doing well.

                          Use this idea of debt free. If you have a recurring monthly payment that is not an utility, then you have a debt. A car payment is a debt, a house payment is a debt. Imagine the money you will have when you do not have monthly payments.

                          I am in a position where a have to find other peoples money, and my curse is that I never needed to before.

                          Thanks for your post...
                          Tim...
                            • Re: Where do we go, when the banks say "NO"?
                              Lighthouse24 Ranger

                              Interesting discussion. It seems that if someone had NEVER driven, he wouldn't have a PERFECT driving record, but rather NO driving record (and no license) -- which is fine if the person is never going to drive. If one day he decides he wants to get a job driving people's children on a school bus, however, then not having a driving record is a problem. Same with FICO -- it doesn't matter what his credit score is if he never intends to borrow money. If one day he wants a loan or the use of someone else's property, however, it's a problem.

                              What would you have the lender or landlord use as proof that this person always pays back what he owes if he has never owed or paid back anything? Those people have families with needs and wants, too -- so they have to have some way of knowing they are going to get their money back. What should they base it on?

                              Suppose a company you'd never heard of approached you out of the blue, offered you a job, and told you, "We've been in business for twenty years, but don't have any money, and so far we've never actually made a payroll -- but all that will change next month and we'll pay you every two weeks from then on." Would you go to work for them? Unfortunately, that's much the same position that a traditional lender is in when the applicant has no credit history.
                                • Re: Where do we go, when the banks say "NO"?
                                  tim13ga Wayfarer
                                  Perhaps I should have stated that the person has taken the trouble to get a license, and then does not drive. You can't get a violation if you don't drive. If you have no violation, you have a perfect record.

                                  But the FICO is a different story. If you do not borrow, you will not have a "GOOD" credit score. Then there is the "Catch 22" You can't get a loan if your FICO is too low, and you can't raise your FICO if you don't have a loan. The FICO is based on debt, not credit. It is a score derived from how often you go into debt, what type of debt it is. Paying back a loan or bill is only a very small part of the total score.

                                  Frankly I don't want to borrow. I am in the unfortunate position that I must borrow. I am simply trying to avoid homelessness because I need a way of earning money, and I am the caregiver to my wife. (She had a stroke and can not take care of herself.) I am a draftsman in Georgia that can't even buy a job.

                                  The business I am trying to get funded would allow me to do both earn a living, and take care of my wife. I want to honor all of debts. But banks only look at the FICO. A score that has no baring on character.

                                  Your business idea is interesting. You have to ask if this business is going to be doing something different that will cause it start making payroll, or is it going to do the same things that cause it to not make payroll?

                                  What I am wanting to do will allow me to make a great payroll. (I am not trying to buy a car, and what I need is much less than a car.)

                                  I hope this helps...
                                  Tim...
                                    • Re: Where do we go, when the banks say "NO"?
                                      Lighthouse24 Ranger

                                      I hate to debate this, because it doesn't help you in your current situation -- and that really bothers me. All the same, I think there is value for other current or aspiring small business owners in this discussion.

                                      Right or wrong, good or bad, like it or not, FICO is what lenders consider. FairIsaac has been around for 50 years, and the scoring system has been there for almost 30, so it's not like somebody sprung it on us yesterday. It's how things have worked for quite awhile.

                                      I don't know anyone who likes to borrow money or be in debt. But as a business owner, it would be irresponsible of me to think that I'd never need to. So way back when, I bought things on credit and paid them off immediately. Did they send me letters calling me a "deadbeat?" Nope, they sent me letters increasing my credit lines. And when a tornado and flooding rains removed any physical evidence of my firm's existence from the face of planet last spring, I needed it! I still didn't want to borrow money, even then, but the business could not have remained operational otherwise.

                                      The point is, bad stuff is probably going to happen, and unless someone is independently wealthy, he/she is going to need to borrow money to get through it. Good stuff also happens, and sometimes a person needs more money than he/she has in order to take advantage of those opportunities. Borrowing when you don't really need to is what gives you the power to borrow when you do really need to.

                                      Banks lend on the basis of creditworthiness. The people who lend on the basis of character are called family and friends. Character is also a big factor for individual investors. Beyond traditional lenders -- and beyond developing a killer business plan and presenting it over and over to investors until someone says "yes" -- I'm just not aware of a "door number 3" (at least, not one with anything behind it).

                                      I am truly sorry that bad stuff is happening to you right now, and that I can't do anything to help -- I hope someone can, and that things turn out okay. Best wishes.

                                      1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                        • Re: Where do we go, when the banks say "NO"?
                                          tim13ga Wayfarer
                                          Lighthouse24:

                                          Thanks for the well wishes. They are most appreciated.

                                          To me, it just dosn't seem right that a person that got along fine without borrowing, is punished during the time they are forced to borrow. There should be a door number 3. What it would be I don't know, but there should be some place to go for funding when banks that only look at the FICO say no.

                                          I understand that bad things happen, and up until last year I have been able to face them head on. This time I am overwhelmed. I am forced to become a business owner because I can't buy a job and I am trying not to become homeless.

                                          The "Deadbeat" comment works this way. NO they will not tell you that you are a deadbeat. The credit card companies will tell you that you are a great customer and want to reward you with a higher limit. The higher limit is to encourage you to place more on the card until you reach a point that you can not pay it all off when it is due. They want you to carry a balance so that you will pay them interest. If you are not paying interest, they are not earning any money. Credit card companies only make money when you can not pay all on what you charge.

                                          I hope this helps explain my attitude towards credit cards and FICO.

                                          Tim...
                                            • Re: Where do we go, when the banks say "NO"?
                                              DomainDiva Ranger

                                              "Credit card companies only make money when you can not pay all on what you charge."

                                              Not true, credit card companies make money everytime you use the card through the merchant processing fee. Just because a card company raises your limit does not mean that a person has to go and spend up to that limit. You have to beat them at their own game.
                                                • Re: Where do we go, when the banks say "NO"?
                                                  tim13ga Wayfarer
                                                  Diva,

                                                  Believe me, I have been looking for drafting work this last year. After hundreds of applications I landed only 2 interviews in 12 months. Staffing Services, Department of Labor, you name it, I look daily. I am 48 and I can't buy a job.

                                                  You are very correct in that I should not have used "only" in how credit card companies make money. I stand corrected in that there are processing fees. And those processing fees are of course passed on to the consumer. In every sense, they get you coming and going. I have never liked the idea of paying more money for something than I have to.

                                                  Just for the record, (so others that read these posts will know) we have not been arguing. This debate we have had here has been in the spirit of agreeing to disagree. I hope you feel the same way...

                                                  Thanks for your post...
                                                  Tim...
                                                    • Re: Where do we go, when the banks say "NO"?
                                                      Iwrite Pioneer
                                                      I agree.

                                                      I found this exchange interesting and informative. Nice points on both sides.

                                                      All I want to say and I may have said it before:

                                                      "The marketing of the concept of credit is some of the most successful marketing in history. In less than 50 years, financial institutions have managed to convince consumers in America that they cannot live without credit."

                                                      Think about what credit has done to the prices of the things we purchase. The prices of homes and cars have skyrocketed from the 1970's because credit allows you to buy something you could not afford to pay cash for.
                                                        • Re: Where do we go, when the banks say "NO"?
                                                          tim13ga Wayfarer
                                                          Oh, so true.

                                                          Has anyone noticed that car ads no longer tell you the price of the car, instead they tell you the payments. They tell you how much down, and how much a month, "with approved credit" of course. It is if the car is an afterthought. Car companies are selling debt. It is also odd that the cheapest cars available still have a price tag high enough where you can not easily pay cash for them. That is one of the reasons I have never owned a new car.

                                                          Thanks for your post...

                                                          Tim...
                                                          • Re: Where do we go, when the banks say "NO"?
                                                            Lighthouse24 Ranger

                                                            The prices of homes and cars have skyrocketed from the 1970's because credit allows you to buy something you could not afford to pay cash for.

                                                            Really? I thought it was pretty much market driven -- sellers want more money, buyers are willing pay it, and prices escalate.

                                                            The western U.S. grew rapidly in the late 1800's and early 1900's. In 1910, the average household income in the U.S. was about $546 a year. That was also a record year for home mortgages, nationwide. The average price of a new home was $2,900, the going interest rate was around 5.5 percent, and 46 percent of Americans had a mortgage on the house they were living in. A new Model T Coupe was priced at around $1,050, and the gas to put in it was 25 cents a gallon -- about $5 in today's terms. (Source: U.S. Census Bureau) Borrowing money to make major purchases is nothing new.
                                                              • Re: Where do we go, when the banks say "NO"?
                                                                Iwrite Pioneer
                                                                What's wrong with that statement? I thought credit is a way to pay over time for a thing that you do not have the money to pay for at the time of the purchase. The more money people have access to, the more businesses will charge, the more credit is needed.

                                                                I am not saying credit is the sole cause of the rise in prices but it plays a major part in it.

                                                                That is the part of the illusion - the market had to have access to the funds to purchase the things they wanted. Prices can only go up and remain up when people have access to the money to pay the prices.

                                                                Although credit has been around for a while, the standards for getting credit were more stringent and exclusive. However, as those standards were relaxed, the prices for big ticket items rose.

                                                                Even now, the argument is that credit should not have been extended to the people who are caught in this current mortgage crisis. I am not sure either way but I find it interesting that banks made it easier for people to get financing for homes that were already over priced, I do not believe this is a new thing. Nor do I believe it was some accident - it was thought out. It was the natural evolution of the practices banks/financial institutes have been engaged in for years.

                                                                 


                                                                  • Re: Where do we go, when the banks say "NO"?
                                                                    Lighthouse24 Ranger

                                                                    Well, I guess I don't perceive that banks or their practices were quite as much of a driving force in all this as you do. (No problem -- not the first time we didn't see things exactly the same way!)

                                                                    In my view, consumers demand financial products, and banks provide them. Are the terms of some of those financial products lousy? Yes! Did a banker ever put a gun to a borrower's head and force him to take a loan? No. It's not unlike a guy who walks into a Vegas casino and bets his whole paycheck on one roulette number. There's only a 1 in 38 chance that he's going to win, but he does it anyway. Some of those mortgages that people took out had even less of a chance of working out well, but people went for them. Is it a bank's (or casino's) fault that some people make bad decisions?

                                                                    As you probably know (being in Texas), this state doesn't have nearly the foreclosure problem as some parts of the country -- in part because lenders here weren't allowed to write some of the mortgages they did elsewhere. Texas doesn't allow casinos, either. Maybe those famous "Eyes" are trying to take care of the people who can't or won't take care of themselves.

                                                                    (By the way, I'm not even remotely suggesting that the member who started this thread was a gambler, made bad decisions, or can't take care of himself. I recognize that there was an untimely job loss and a family illness that seriously impacted him, and I continue to hope and pray that he finds a solution soon.)
                                                                      • Re: Where do we go, when the banks say "NO"?
                                                                        Iwrite Pioneer
                                                                        I too, am hoping he finds the solution.

                                                                        Lighthouse,

                                                                        I don't think we disagree as much as we see things differently. I have never said that people are not responsible for where they are. I said, credit has been marketed so well that Americans believe they cannot live without it. And this is a recent happening.

                                                                        Look at credit as an industry, and tell me if they have not done a great job of marketing?

                                                                        We cannot see ourselves living without:
                                                                        • No one raise an eye when VISA told folks through their commercials that using cash is an inconvenience. No one noticed. As a matter of fact the spots are well recieved in testing.
                                                                        • My sons learned how to use an atm card in Kindergarten because that's how they pay for their meals. And no one minds that we are teaching them to learn to use a pin number before they can read.
                                                                        • I worked for a auto finance client that was offering 6, 7 and 8 year terms on loans and leases, and people were buying them.

                                                                        Credit is not evil, it is a service. I am not making a judgement as much as I am observing a trend. I am impressed with the results that financial institutes have gotten from what appears to be very little effort. Talk about a ROI on their marketing dollars!

                                                                        I don't like what the drug companies are doing but I have to acknowledge that they are very good at their marketing. Knowing this, I try to use my powers for good.
                                                                          • Re: Where do we go, when the banks say "NO"?
                                                                            Lighthouse24 Ranger

                                                                            I concur that there's some great marketing . . . but then it's an easy sell. Credit cards ARE more convenient than cash -- for me as a shopper and as a merchant. It's a lot like cell phones -- look what's happened in the 20 years since the FCC allowed enough bandwidth to make those feasible. I don't see the players in either industry (credit cards or cell phones) marketing the basic concept of having the product or service as much as having their product or service. I think the inherent value of each sold people on the basic concept fairly quickly.
                                                                              • Re: Where do we go, when the banks say "NO"?
                                                                                Iwrite Pioneer
                                                                                That's the secret!

                                                                                Remember, at first it wasn't an easy sell - the entry price was high. But over time, it became affordable. I am old enough to remember when getting an American Express card meant something - very few people had them. "Membership has its privileges."

                                                                                If small business owners tell the story for their businesses, they can realize a similar success, but they have to look beyond the easy message to marketing the concept of having their product or service.

                                                                                We should look at cell phones and credit and learn to position our business as a must have not a maybe have.
                                                                                  • Re: Where do we go, when the banks say "NO"?
                                                                                    tim13ga Wayfarer

                                                                                    First and foremost, I want to say that I am humbled by all the expressed thoughts and prayers. They are appreciated more than I can say...

                                                                                    This thread has taken an unusual turn. The concepts of how we are drawn into credit problems, (currently and historically) are raising even more questions. The biggest question seems to be, "Just how is debt being sold to us?" Why do we feel compelled to go into debt?

                                                                                    We use the terms "Credit" and "Creditworthiness" as if it is something to achieve. It is like a life goal to get a great "Credit Score." I like Ramsey's definition of credit score. He calls it a "I love debt score." In order to get this great "Credit Score", we must have a history of going into debt. (The earlier and more often, the better.) In a way, something is wrong with that. The person that has not needed a loan until now, can't get it. And the person that finances every purchase they make, can always get more.

                                                                                    I have always looked at a loan as a life saver. (The round emergency flotation device, not the candy.) The person that can swim comfortably, dose not need one. The person that is tired and near drowning, needs it desperately. If we must make a decision of who to throw the life saver to by the credit score model, we throw the life saver to the one that is comfortably swimming, and NOT to the one about to drown. Does that make sense?

                                                                                    Does anyone remember the movie "War Games?" In it, a large leaning computer was put in charge of when and if to fire our nuclear weapons. It is a scary thought to think that our lives hinged on how this computer ran the numbers. (It scared me more to think that the government was in charge of the numbers, but that is a different story.) We now laugh at the idea of our destiny being decided by a computer program. But we will gladly have our financial futures judged by a mathematical algorithm of FICO. How did we get sold that?

                                                                                    How did all these people get into bad loans? I am fairly sure that no gun was used. I do feel that banks and mortgage houses took advantage of the greed and ignorance of people wanting houses. Real Estate ads all over the place told of "EZ" terms and "We will work with you to get your loan." Lets face facts that owning a home can be better than renting, not much selling had to be done there. The selling had to be done on the rediculous terms of the loan. Banks sold people on the idea the "Adjustable" rate could go down, and of course it did not. My stepdaughter is now in foreclosure because her rate "adjusted."

                                                                                    Ideas are sold, just like products are sold. We have been sold on the idea that going into debt is a good thing. So many people have bought into the idea that it seems perfectly natural to have a wallet full of credit cards and two jobs to pay for it all. Somewhere we have to stop buying the idea that lots of debt is good. At least we should slow down on the purchases.

                                                                                    Where would our lives be if the only loan we needed as consumers was for our home. Imagine if we stopped borrowing money for our cars, computers, TV's, airline tickets, and coffee from Starbucks. It blows my mind that you can buy a soda from a vending machine with a "Credit Card."

                                                                                    For the record, I don't gamble. (I don't drink, don't smoke, and have not had cable tv for almost a year now.) I have tried to live a fairly simple life. Not monastically simple, but simple enough...

                                                                                    Thanks for all the posts...
                                                                                    Tim...
                                                                                      • Re: Where do we go, when the banks say "NO"?
                                                                                        debtor Newbie
                                                                                        But how do you get a good "Credit Score" the only way I know is by going into "debt." Paying bills on time is only a small part of the equation. A very small part. --Tim13ga

                                                                                        Wrong. 35% (the biggest percentage) of your FICO score is payment history. Which translates to paying bills on time.
                                                                                          • Re: Where do we go, when the banks say "NO"?
                                                                                            Iwrite Pioneer
                                                                                            I have always been told all bills are not the same. That different types of accounts and bills weigh differently when determining a FICO score.

                                                                                            Within the system different types of accounts and bills carry a different weight when it comes to the determining of a FICO score. I have known peoplr who paid their bills on time all the time but didn't have enough credit so their scores were low, while friends, and even myself, had bumps and bruises but had more credit and higher scores.

                                                                                            I am not trying to drag this out any further but I am trying to get some clarification. Can a person with no credit cards but a great payment history have a FICO score of 750?
                                                                                              • Re: Where do we go, when the banks say "NO"?
                                                                                                DomainDiva Ranger
                                                                                                The things that FICO weights heavily on:

                                                                                                Debt to equity ratio. IE how much credit limit versus how much credit used. FICO like no more than 10-12%, so if you have credit cards with 50000 open credit between them and use 3000-500 per month and pay off each month FICO likes you. (or pay large amounts over and above the monthly payment and still carry a balance..). never get more than 12% ahead of your total credit line...reagrdless of how many cards you have.

                                                                                                If you have several credit cards use one and put the rest away and use once every three or four months for dinner or something and pay it off and put it away. Don't close them...remember the ratio...

                                                                                                Car payments..preferably through GMAC, FORD Motor Credit or Mercedes Benz Credit made on time

                                                                                                Mortgages...but not big ones. A mortgage amount must be in line with your income usually no more than 15-20% of monthly income. FICO hates 25%. Mortgage payments must be made on time. I deposit my mortgage payment into an account and let WAMU draft it. One missed mortgage payment can stay on your record for over 7 years..... (my ex missed a payment in 1999 and I just got it removed in January of this year. It is depressing to see "YOU MADE A LATE PAYMENT 7 YEARS and THREE MONTHS AGO. It then becomes ridiculous.

                                                                                                If you have a stellar payment history with none of the 'stars' described above you should score in the mid 600's. Once a prospective lender can look at that history of good payments you can then start working towards the 'stars' described above. No Credit cards? Get a secured card for several hundred dollars and get started.

                                                                                                The FICO alogrithim changed in January now they are also looking at how quickly bills are paid....so if you get a bill and have the money...get it paid as quick as you can. Thats why online banking is so wonderful.

                                                                                                ALSO....paid off debts will stay on your record for 10 years.
                                                                                                  • Re: Where do we go, when the banks say "NO"?
                                                                                                    tim13ga Wayfarer
                                                                                                    I know I stirred up a hornets nest by bringing up the subject of trying to live with out a stellar fico. I still have not gotten the core question answered. Where to go, when banks say no?

                                                                                                    So far...

                                                                                                    Family... no.
                                                                                                    Friends... Would love to help, but alas, no.
                                                                                                    Other Banks... Need that love it or hate it fico... no.
                                                                                                    Finance companies... too big of a loan amount (over $3,000.00)... no.
                                                                                                    SBA... Would love to help you get credit... no.
                                                                                                    SCORE... Haven't got there yet... Will let you know (no offence luckiest... )
                                                                                                    Angels... I have not found a legit group yet, and I can't afford the fees... no.

                                                                                                    Today I went to my local Chamber of Commerce and talked to its president. I will let you all know in a few days if anything will come of our meeting.

                                                                                                    In the meantime, thanks for all of your thoughts, good ideas, prayers and posts...
                                                                                                    Tim...
                                                                                                      • Re: Where do we go, when the banks say "NO"?
                                                                                                        Iwrite Pioneer
                                                                                                        Does it have to be one lump sum or could you borrow a portion from more than one finance company?

                                                                                                        If you can't get all you need from one source what about combining a group of sources. I know that is more leg work but what if 3 or 4 sources combined could give you what you need? No, it isn't the best solution but it might get you the funds you need. Or maybe you have thought of that.

                                                                                                        That's all I've got.
                                                                                                          • Re: Where do we go, when the banks say "NO"?
                                                                                                            tim13ga Wayfarer

                                                                                                            Iwrite,

                                                                                                            I do not need it all from one source. I would accept it from many sources. my biggest problem is finding the sources to combine. I could start this thing as low as $5,000.00 It would allow me to buy and start the business. The other was for keeping the household afloat while the business got going.

                                                                                                            Any source of loans lower than the first $5,000.00 I would not be able to service the debt until the business started. That is the pickle I find myself in.

                                                                                                            Tim...
                                                                                                          • Re: Where do we go, when the banks say "NO"?
                                                                                                            DomainDiva Ranger
                                                                                                            You asked the question.. I gave you my answers and they were of no help.
                                                                                                              • Re: Where do we go, when the banks say "NO"?
                                                                                                                Manik67 Newbie
                                                                                                                Dear All
                                                                                                                With respect to all of you-I am expressing myself that I got nothing fother than wasting my time to join and stay in this community. I am a small business owner, working 90 hour per week, now I am feeling I lost lots of my time to open and read all those intelectual article far, faar, fa...r from the real thing I wanted to read here.
                                                                                                                Now I just want to get out from this community-I am frequently putting this site as spam, but still getting mail. Would anybody please help me out and tell me how I may cancel my membership and same some of my working time?
                                                                                                                Thanks-
                                                                                                                  • Re: Where do we go, when the banks say "NO"?
                                                                                                                    Iwrite Pioneer
                                                                                                                    I think if you email the administrator you can be removed. In the meantime, a real world solution is to simply delete the emails without opening them. That should be a simple fix. No one is forcing you to open your emails. I delete plenty of emails each day without ever reading them.

                                                                                                                    I am puzzled that you felt it necessary to take one more parting shot before you go. If you are as busy as you claim, don't waste your time - simply go. We are all busy trying to build our businesses, so I am not going to feel sorry for you. It is a decision you as an adult made. You have options but please do not try to blame this forum for the position you're in. It is the level of your experience and preparation that has you where you are. You could not find a source for funding here, imagine that. No where on this site does it claim to be a source for funding, it is your unrealistic expectations that have you frustrated. And look at how you respond. You lash out at people who have nothing to do with the situation you have placed yourself.

                                                                                                                    The real world can be cold and hard, the best thing you could have found here was support and understanding - anything else is extra. I understand being desperate, been there and done that, that's why I work hard to be nice to others struggling. But I have to say to you don't burn all your bridges, you never know where help may one day come from.

                                                                                                                    Good luck and I really hope you find what you are looking for. Much success.
                                                                                                                  • Re: Where do we go, when the banks say "NO"?
                                                                                                                    tim13ga Wayfarer
                                                                                                                    Diva,

                                                                                                                    Don't get me wrong, your answers helped, but I was looking for something a little different. I appreciate your input, your thoughts, and your admonitions.

                                                                                                                    Thanks again,
                                                                                                                    Tim...
                                                                                          • Re: Where do we go, when the banks say "NO"?
                                                                                            DomainDiva Ranger
                                                                                            ABSOLUTELY!! I am all about the 'spirited debate'. Arguing is a waste of time.

                                                                                            What I am learning though is that a lot of people are taking Dave Ramsey too much to heart and are paying the price. I use his roll over idea of money to pay off the balance (zero percent) I have on one business card for all of our technology. Without the FICO from Nirvana (that is SO FUNNY) I could have not purchased the computers and software my team needed. I have been able to do it all at zero percent, and after the car go paid off..I am using that money towards the computer debt as well so I will have paid off 15000 in less than 2 years.

                                                                                            However... after reading so many posts and stories on the board...I am feeling 'compelled' shall we say to write the Divas' Guide to FICO Nirvana and Zero Debt With Emergency Funds Available As Well....

                                                                                            I am a firm believer that real credit (not paying off the cards each month type of credit) should only be used when there is no other choice or the numbers dictate that using credit is the best choice...
                                                                                    • Re: Where do we go, when the banks say "NO"?
                                                                                      DomainDiva Ranger
                                                                                      If you are a draftsman, have you tried doing contract work for architectural firms, or other firms that needed your skills?

                                                                                      (I still think you have bought into the wrong idea about FICO, my friend...but this being Ameirca you are entitled...).
                                                                          • Re: Where do we go, when the banks say "NO"?
                                                                            Lighthouse24 Ranger

                                                                            I understand your frustration at not being able to get your business started due to lack of seed money. It took me eight years from when I initially set the goal to get to the point where I could actually launch my first company, and another year after that before I was confident enough to quit my regular job.

                                                                            "Intense competition, frequent rejection, unpredictable income." That's how the job of Screen Actor is described in a college counselor's handbook of occupational descriptions -- but it fits the aspiring small business owner pretty well, too.

                                                                            Someone doesn't get to be a working actor just because he or she really, really wants to. Even incredible talent isn't enough. There are 120,000 actors who've had enough work to qualify for Screen Actors Guild membership, and 100,000 of them made less than $5,000 as actors last year. Lots of people have desire and talent. So what are those 100,000 people doing? They're doing whatever they can to make ends meet while taking classes to improve their craft, and going to auditions in hopes of connecting with the right person at the right time. You can count the number of people who became instant stars on one hand.

                                                                            It's not that different for an aspiring business owner. Desire isn't enough. A really great business idea isn't enough. If you can't capitalize the business yourself, then you do what you can to make ends meet -- or better yet, you do more than that and start building a solid credit history. You keep educating yourself on things that will help you once you are in business, and you keep improving your plan (there's not a business plan in existence that can't be improved). You do all of that while continuing to search for the person or group with money that wants in on what you have. To answer the questions in your post, yes, those people and groups are out there. It may take months, or it may take years to find them (there aren't many "instant gratifications" in business) -- but if it's what you really want to do, you do what it takes.

                                                                            I mentioned the following in another post, but I think it's worth repeating: It's not feasible for everyone in the country to be in business for him/herself -- so to paraphrase Professor Randy Pausch, "The obstacles aren't there to keep you away from your dream. They are there to keep the other people away who don't want it as much as you do."

                                                                            Keep at it -- and good luck to you.
                                                                            1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                                                              • Re: Where do we go, when the banks say "NO"?
                                                                                tim13ga Wayfarer
                                                                                Lighthouse24,

                                                                                Thanks for your post.

                                                                                It makes great sense if I was 18 and not 48.

                                                                                Alas I also have a wife that needs help with everything due to her stroke. I am trying to start a business that will allow me to earn money and have time to care for her. I would work two jobs if I could get them. (Today I can't get one.) But the care my wife needs is 24/7 type of care.

                                                                                I am looking for funding that looks at the person, not the number.

                                                                                I hope this helps,
                                                                                Tim...
                                                                              • Re: Where do we go, when the banks say "NO"?
                                                                                Manik67 Newbie
                                                                                I bought a business with my own(HEL, from friends, family) half million dollars and a sellars notes of $700000.00. This is a very successfull business established in more than 40 years. Because I have to pay some of my family loan right now, I was looking only $50,000.00-$100,000.00. No one would give money. I have to be in same business under my ownership in 2 years, have to proof that my business is making lot's of money. My score is low now, beacuse I am max out. I never missed a single payment in my whole life, I don't have a single negetive item in my credit report. Only one problem I found for me-I am a honest guy.
                                                                                Bank would offer me loan only when I don;t need it, to misguide them when I intentionally make my score higher to cheat them. In my past I did many successfull business. I started my first business in 1999 with $30,000.00. I buy a business, build it and sell it-I did it 3 times. Now I am in a bigger business what I did before. I took private loan with 30%-36% rate and paid them off, but not a single time bank gave me anything.
                                                                                • Re: Where do we go, when the banks say "NO"?
                                                                                  BigBizBob Newbie

                                                                                  Well, I'm assuming you have all the necesary info on FICO & NIRVANA, and that you could now write a nice piece for the local paper on what the scores mean, no credit etc. I don't know if your question was answered or not, but; reading the answers I don't think so. Really, what your asking is how do you fund your drafting (I assume it's drafting) business, Here are a few question for you to answer about yourself:

                                                                                  Note: I'm also assuming that you would be working out of the house, since you are also taking care of your wife.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  - How long have you been thinking of this business, a couple of weeks? Months? Years?

                                                                                  - Is this just a thought as you try to get a "real" job?, or is this something that you believe in, and are committed to achieving?

                                                                                  - Are you currently working the business now trying to drum up customers?

                                                                                  - If not, why not? Whats stopping you?

                                                                                  - Do you already have customers that would be willing to give you a letter of intent to do business with you.
                                                                                  If so, contact them for the letter, you could use those as evidence for viability of your business with your bank, or any bank in your area.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  - What is the money to be used for: Start-up expenses, equipment, advertising, working capital etc. How much in each category is the committment.

                                                                                  - Do you really need this money to get started? or Can you make do without it, and start now!!!!!!!

                                                                                  - Do you already have the equipment necessary? Plotters, Printers, Copiers, Computer, software, etc.

                                                                                  If you don't have the necessary equipment, contact the Mfg's HP, Dell, etc to see if they will finance your equipment.

                                                                                  - If that doesn't work, then utilize your local Copy stores, The UPS Store, AIM Mail Centers, Kinko's etc, and utilize their equipment and pass on the charges plus usage fees to your customers. You can even send your drafting jobs online to these companies, and they can print out and mail the copies to your customer job site, or back to you. You probably even have a local Graphics store in your area or county that you can work with and get some 30 day terms

                                                                                  - Realistically, how much do you need to earn a good living?

                                                                                  - How much do you need to charge per job to just break even.

                                                                                  - Looking at the above answers, Are the answers to daunting for you, and are you just dreaming about owning your own business, or......Are you committed to do anything to make a success of your business.

                                                                                  If the answer is your committed to being a success, then you need to start refocusing your efforts on getting your business off the ground. This is called "Bootstrapping", Taking what you currently have and start your business and paying for it as you go along. If you have a lot of experience in your field, your an expert.

                                                                                  - Do you have the credentials and influence in your field to command the necessary prices for your expertise?

                                                                                  - Have you joined any affiliate membership groups, any networking groups,


                                                                                  You have to make a commitment to succeed, your efforts in the beginning is what is going to determine your success in the future. You can sit around all day reading about getting into a business, but at the end of the day, you still don't have a business, you're not earning the money you need to survive. Don't let NO determine your selfworth....

                                                                                  I can say this.....If you get your business going now, no matter how tight your budget is, the better your chances are of getting the revenue you need in the future to expand your business.

                                                                                  There is nothing better than being a business owner, but; in order for it to succeed, you have to leave all the negative thoughts at the door. I don't care if you have no score, or too low a score.....You have only believe that You and only You can do Your business the best way, and you demonstrate that by leading by example.....
                                                                                    • Re: Where do we go, when the banks say "NO"?
                                                                                      tim13ga Wayfarer
                                                                                      BigBizBob,

                                                                                      Actualy the business is not drafting. (Please see the post: "Caregiver... With a plan... Needs $15,000.00 Unsecured Loan...") I am a drafter that can not buy a job. It is a StarScapes business that I want to start. It would allow me to earn a great living during the few hours that my wife attends a local adult day health center. (to see what StarScapes is please go to www.starscapes.com)

                                                                                      Even finding local work has been a nightmare given the few hours I have to work outside the home. (Winder, GA aint that big.) When you are 48, employers can get people half your age without the time limitations and medical baggage.

                                                                                      About your post: even though you leaned to the drafting question, you did spend a-lot of time in it. Thank you. I do appreciate your effort.

                                                                                      I would not even consider a drafting from home business right now. There is little to no call for any draftsman while the housing bust is going on...

                                                                                      Thanks agian,
                                                                                      Tim...
                                                                                    • Re: Where do we go, when the banks say "NO"?
                                                                                      Broc51 Newbie

                                                                                      Tim, CaesarInc3 is a company that links people with lenders, and the service is fast and free. If you have an executive summary, the process is really simple. Check out their website www.caesarinc3.com. This company is working with lenders that are aligning with the "New Marshall Plan" and the desire to stimulate the economy and create jobs. It is worth a shot...