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    20 Replies Latest reply on Oct 27, 2008 1:51 AM by intechspecial

    Google PPC Question

    amspcs Ranger
      I am stumpted about how to compute 'bid' amounts for Google PPC. Have tried multiple strategies, nothing seems to work.

      I assume the trick is to bid high enough to get your ad reasonably placed at the top of the heap, but not too high as to ridiculously overpay. The problem is: How does one go about researching this? I can tell you the trial-and-error approach isn't the answer because what seems to work great on Tuesday completely flops on Wednesday---no rhyme or reason.

      I believe Yahoo has (or had) a system in which no matter how high one might bid, the actual price charged for a click can never be more than a penny or so more than the next highest active bid for that key word.
      #1: Is this true? and if so, #2 does Google PPC also have such a policy?

      If anybody has had success on Google PPC, any insight into how to best determine the appropriate amount(s) to bid would be appreciated. Thanks.

      AMSPCS
        • Re: Google PPC Question
          DomainDiva Ranger
          The google algorithim that controls this process more than likely changes daily based on what the 'hot' bids are on that day.
          • Re: Google PPC Question
            puzzleman Tracker
            I used to use Google PPC and found that it is hard to determine where to be. I found through experience that for me, the third spot did just as well as the first position. So I would bid that way.

            I didn't fret about it working one day and not the next. Some people I knew would fret about it from hour to hour. I took the bigger view and looked at weeks and months of data to see trends. I did see trends that would indicate some hours were better than others as far as return on clicks, I left my ads up all the time as I would get orders at all hours of the day.

            Jim
              • Re: Google PPC Question
                amspcs Ranger
                Hi Jim. Remember me, we had a few phone conversations many months ago. Anyway, I hear you, I don't fret day to day or hour by hour. What I DO see is a consistent pattern of an initial spike of positive activity at the very beginning of a new campaign, then it just dies, completely and permanently. I turn it off to 'rest' a few days, reactivate it, and see the same thing again...initial spike, then total death. Almost as if they want to give you some positive reinforcement to dig deeper before reality sets in. Threre HAS to be a better way. Darned if I can figure out what it is.

                Question: How DO you figure out how much to bid? What's too high and what's too low? Is it purely guesswork trial and error? Or is there some source where one can get an idea what competitive bids are?

                BG
                  • Re: Google PPC Question
                    puzzleman Tracker
                    Hello, I do remember you. I set my bid amounts based on what others were bidding so that I usually wound up in the 2 or 3 spot. I set my weekly amounts based on what I felt I could afford without making a sale, knowing that some where going to turn into sales. Overall, I did not have any scientific way of doing it just trying not to go broke and gutting it out.

                    Concerning that you spike initially and then go down and then it repeats when you turn it back on again.
                    Are the people coming through the same people? Are they going because it is new each time? Are you making sales from the leads?

                    Maybe with your product that is the way to do it. Turn it on for a while, then turn it off and then back on again. Don't fight it, just go with the flow. could be it is just the nature of your ad and product.

                    Jim
                      • Re: Google PPC Question
                        amspcs Ranger
                        Re: "I set my bid amounts based on what others were bidding". HOW do you find out what others are bidding?

                        Re: '+Are the people coming through the same people? "+ I have no idea who the clickers are. How does one tell?

                        I suspect there ar lots of tools out there I am missing out on. The purpose of this inquiry is to find out what the heck they are.

                        To be honest, I just suspect the initial spike comes from nosy people who just want to click on competitive ads, either for curiosity or maliciousness Google is supposed to have a policy on malicious clickers, but I'm not sure about that, nor do I see any incentive for Google.

                        BG
                          • Re: Google PPC Question
                            puzzleman Tracker
                            How I figured out what others were bidding was to put in a bid and it would tell me where my place would normally be. Then on another window, I would search the search word and find out who was coming above and below me. Then I would go back and put in a different number and repeat the process. I know it takes time but that's how I did it.

                            I would track when the people are coming through and then go to my web stats and look at that time frame to see where the most people were coming from.

                            I'm sure that my methods are crude but for me they worked.

                            Jim
                    • Re: Google PPC Question
                      isc_inc Newbie
                      First off, you need to figure out how much you can spend.

                      What is your websites conversion ratio? This is the amount of visitors who buy compared to those that visit. If 100 people visit and 10 buy then your conversion ratio is 1 in 10.

                      Next you'll need to know your average net dollar amount per sale. In other words, how much per sale you stick in your pocket. Let's say that is $10.

                      So, if 10 people from google visit your site and you make 1 sale yielding a $10 profit you could afford to pay google $1 per click and break even.

                      Now, business is not about breaking even so with the above scenario I would start in the 90 cents per click range. You would be paying out $9 for every $10 you make which would cover your cost.

                      At that point you will need to start tweaking on your google ppc ads for best performance. Google ppc is all about clicks. They would rather run your ad in the #1 spot for 25 cents a click if it is getting 5 clicks (1.25 in profit) versus some guys ad that is paying $1 a click and only getting clicked on once ($1 profit).

                      The key to google adwords success is ad perfomance. If you have 25 keywords, make 25 ads targeted to every single keyword. Stay on top of your ads at least daily. Eventually you will thin out your keyword list to remove the non performing keyphrases.

                      On a more advanced level google ppc also has a conversion tracking tool. The tool essentially will report which keyphrases are actually converting into sales and how much money it is costing you to make those sales.

                      Stick with google adwords, it is a lot to initially digest but in the long haul is the best bang for your advertising dollar.
                        • Re: Google PPC Question
                          websolutions Tracker
                          I agree with ISC_INC, I would start low and optimize. I would reasearch the keywords/phrases day and night, and talk to people in the industry to get some idea on what to expect. I am sure there are forums specifically for your niche to obtain information from.

                          Good Luck!
                          http://www.livedomainsearch.com
                            • Re: Google PPC Question
                              Glyndower Newbie
                              Not to take anything away from the PPC services, they do provide an instant gratification factor. There has been some fantastic advice offered here also.

                              But it is my experience that a well thought out and built from the ground up plan to market and optimize your website for the search engines brings a much higher quaility of User. One that is more interested in actually purchasing your products or services.

                              For my business dollar, it is a much wiser expendture than fishing for the PPC audience of Users.
                          • Re: Google PPC Question
                            intechspecial Ranger
                            Google PPC might now always increase your sales, but it can increase your search engine rankings.

                            One of the things that PPC offers is to be listed in the Google Content Network.

                            Listing your site in the Google Content Network will increase links to your website, which the more links to your site the more important search engines think your site is.

                            Also, do not expect a high rate of turnover in sales with any PPC market. It does increase awareness, and traffic, but unless you have one of the best websites in your relevant industry, you will not show a great ROI.

                            Great Websites First, Marketing, Traffic Generation Second.

                            Michael Stratton, Integrity Technology Specialists
                              • Re: Google PPC Question
                                Glyndower Newbie
                                There seems to be a common belief among many that using PPC with Google will benefit your site in Natural Position ranking. I do not believe this to be the case. Yes, PPC does get you in the Content Network. BUT in order for that in bound link to be seen by GoogleBot it would have to be present when GoogleBot spiders your website. (the content network ads are served dynamically, in other words the ads change everytime a User views the site.) Although this is possible, it is not probable.

                                Static, text based, keyword relevant, in bound links will always trump any benefit based on in bound links from the Content Network.

                                Googel also adamantly denies that PPC (with them) has any bearing at all on natural ranking.
                                  • Re: Google PPC Question
                                    your_web_guy Adventurer
                                    any links generated by flash or javascript usually will not contribute to your page rank nor will it effect your serps. Googlebot cant see flash and cannot read the output of javascript.

                                    the good news is that with adwords you do get out of the sandbox with google quicker, but it doesnt change your ranking per se... it just gets you in the running sooner.
                                      • Re: Google PPC Question
                                        Glyndower Newbie
                                        Google supplemental - FTL! lol.
                                          • Re: Google PPC Question
                                            intechspecial Ranger
                                            My statement did say it would increase search engine rankings, and this is true. You misenterpreted my statement.

                                            I said SEARCH ENGINE rankings, and not Google rankings.

                                             

                                            My methods of implementation have allowed me the pleasure of PAGE 1 RANKINGS on a half dozen or so key words.

                                            The great thing about it is, these keywords ARE NOT OBSCURE, but some of the most competive keywords in my market.

                                            To follow up on this unbelieveable offerings, I offer 10 HOURS OF FREE service to qualifying orgainzations.

                                             

                                            But of course this post will be followed by a ton of rebuttals, as my competitors are weary.
                                              • Re: Google PPC Question
                                                Glyndower Newbie
                                                No rebuttals here. I currently only have resources for two new full service clients, so my goal here is not neccesarily to create more business. I was simply trying to be helpful http://smallbusinessonlinecommunity.bankofamerica.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" alt=":)" />.

                                                In fact, I agree with you. When you provide the most relevant destination for any key phrases, the search engines will always reward you for that. Good quality relevant content is always the best practice for SEM applications.
                                                • Re: Google PPC Question
                                                  intechspecial Ranger

                                                  I would like to clarify something else as well.

                                                  After your ads have been on the Google content network for a period of time, do a search for your company's website in Google.

                                                  You will notice that there are many links to your website that you did not know where out their.

                                                  Further research this and you will find that these are links that are placed on these sites through the Google content network.

                                                  The google bot peruses the internet, comes across a website that is advertising you site, BOOM another link.

                                                  Once again you will see many rebuttals to this post, I beg not to argue, as I have more productive things to do with my time.

                                                  I will say this, Search Engine Rankings of PAGE ONE after a serach, GOOGLE PAGE RANK OF 4, natural traffic up to 800 IN ONE DAY, A GOOGLE PAGE RANK OF 4, AND AN ALEXA RANKING IN THE TOP 100,000 on occasion, are facts that can not be ignored. Pennies on the dollar affords this potential.
                                        • Re: Google PPC Question
                                          intech Wayfarer
                                          PPC advertising absolutely does not help your ranking in the organic search results. Some people actually contend that it helps and some contend it hurts, but Google emphatically maintains that it does not affect them at all.