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    30 Replies Latest reply on Nov 26, 2008 8:33 PM by intechspecial

    Question About Linking

    intech Wayfarer
      Can somebody who is an expert please summarize what the search engine "rules" are for linking? I have read a number of articles/blogs/websites that give conflicting information about this subject and would like to see if someone can make it simple for us.

      Also, I understand that linking is the key to search engine rankings, so everybody seems to be into manipulating links. Links are supposed to be "natural," so everybody tries to manipulate links so they seem natural. Does this make any sense? It sort of like saying, "you win the prize if you tell a sincere story." So the key to winning the prize becomes faking sincerity the best. Doesn't this seem like a seriously flawed system?

      I'll give you one easy example. From what I have read, it is a no-no to link from one site that you own to another site that you own. But, in reality, what could be more natural than trying to use one of your businesses to promote another one of your own businesses? I own a number of domains. Is it OK with Google if I forward those domains to my website? Or is this seen as trying to fool the search engines?
        • Re: Question About Linking
          LUCKIEST Guide
          A reciprocal link is a mutual link between two objects,
          commonly between two websites to ensure mutual traffic. Example: Alice
          and Bob have websites. If Bob's website links to Alice's website, and
          Alice's website links to Bob's website, the websites are reciprocally
          linked. Website owners often submit their sites to reciprocal link
          exchange directories, in order to achieve higher rankings in the search
          Reciprocal linking between websites is an important part of the search
          engine optimization process because
          Google uses link popularity
          algorithms (defined as the number of links that led to a particular
          page and the
          anchor text of the link) to rank websites for relevancy.

          • Re: Question About Linking
            designer Tracker
            Hello. I have a Links page on my web site that I think is pretty darn cool. Last night, I was sitting with my Webmaster and we were going through my Google page rankings. I had a 3 on my homepage which is low, but still good...although I have been as high as a 6 at times. Anyway, my Links page is not even a 1. My Links page, I feel is very interesting and I only showcase people and places that I know. Most of my Links are my customers and I like to feature them and promote what they do. Some of them link back to me but most do not. After 3 years, I just give up on the whole rankings thing and trying to rack my brain out trying to figure out the system. You know what...for me - - -"It is what it is". My customers that come to visit me, they either like it or they don't. Most of my customers that give my product a try end up eventually being in the VIP Club which is on my site as well. But, I love my Links page and I am just going to keep working hard. I hope you won't let the stats and numbers jump in your way of your dreams and the big picture of what you are accomplishing to do.
            • Re: Question About Linking
              ezprint Wayfarer
              You can link to your own sites - but the 'rules' for not getting penalized are a little more detailed than if you link to your own sites or not.
              All the rules were formed over the years from spammers and scammers actually using them in such excess that it directed the way Internet evolved.
              I'll show you some rules , and reasons why these rules began.

              Things not to do in your linking.

              1. Double content (do your sites have duplicate pages or text - this is bad)

              Reason 1: decade or so ago ,webmasters would mass duplicate pages to get bulk pages with a rank. If they had one page that ranked well, and had a lot of keywords, they would mass duplicate it. (mass duplicate into the thousands, tens of thousands ,millions perhaps by programs)

              Reason 2: the Affiliate website craze of 8 years ago - Every business that wanted to sell, sell sell.. would create their main flagship website, and then duplicates with varying color themes, and have Internet users sign up and operate one of those sites. Problem with that was - there was millions of them , spam from those peoples trying to make their commission or affiliate cash didn't care about the integrity - and yet the main companies could try to deny responsibility for them.


              2. Irrelevant content linking ( does your site have anything related, or to do with the site youre linked to? is it T-shirt prints and auto parts? because search engines are cracking down on spam and obvious attempts to boost PR (page rank) of your site through mass linking)

              Reason: Website owners and online businesses all want to get high 'SERPS' (in short, this refers to your search engine placement. or where your site appears for any search term or keyword on search engines like Google)
              In order to get high SERPS you needed as the saying goes "lots of backlinks!" But, once that was realized, everyone was linking to everyone else.
              It turned into a mass interlinking, irrelevant bulk tangled linking mess of crap. But , they were getting high SERPS ,perhaps over 8 years ago .


              3. Paid Links (a new one ) Search engines never used to care when webmasters would buy links from higher PR (pagerank) websites . The webmaster would buy a link, and the other site with higher popularity would place a link to them on their more popular site. (so in short the webmaster was renting a link to get higher popularity from a more popular site)
              Google has waged war on this suddenly..and aome webmasters are in a frenzy as their PR 6 websites drop to PR 1.

              advertising links are advertising links. and search engines know they could be getting that money if you advertised with their services. Also, since your popularity gained from link buying is fake, they dont like it because it undermines the integrity of popularity the search engines are trying to create.

              all advertising links now will mostly have a rel="nofollow" in the hyperlink tags.
              Search engines like Google dont ask or need to investigate if you are using a paid link , if they suspect it, if your site has no relevance to the other, they can just sock it in thre eye. lol


              does that help ya with some idea about linking?
                • Re: Question About Linking
                  intech Wayfarer

                  What you say confirms my opinion of the whole SEO/linking business. It gets more and more complicated and convoluted every day because so many "bad apples" have tried to manipulate it. Few people can actually keep up with it. Google and the others change the rules to stay ahead of the scammers, but the scammers seem to be quicker at adapting to the changes than the honest people. For example, I now see SEO websites that offer to write articles with a link to your website, and post them on blogs. It supposedly gives the appearance of someone writing a real article and just, by the way, here's a good website to go to. How is Google going to react to that kind of trickery?
                  • Re: Question About Linking
                    NatOnline Tracker
                    Intech, I think ezprint said it right about links. I will add one more thing to his comments.

                    It is very hard to rank high, particularly these days with an e-commerce. Some unethical SEO (web ring) people are now targetting legetimate websites as their own sites are rejected more and more by search engines algorithm. Their unfair techniques are using badware on your pages, or scrap, redirect your entire site for ranking gain (cybersquatting). Unfortunately another game start and can cost you a lot of money or you can take legal action and go after them with no guarantees.

                    The best protection you can have on your site is a trademark.

                    Cybersquatting is a crime, here some information:
                      • Re: Question About Linking
                        ezprint Wayfarer
                        The redirects are probably one of the worst. Take an occasional look at the URL address bar - make sure it isn't some link other than the one it is supposed to have. When your site is hijacked through redirects though, it makes the hijacker obvious , at least from the site that is hijacking it. I think that might be one of the reasons many scammers have created the whole new Phishing scheme.

                        Phishing is where they will make an identical website of a popular commerce or other type of site that requires personal information. I remember about 6 years ago PayPal was sending out letters about it. Also, a webhost service I was using about 7 years ago sent an alert letter to inform of phisphing concerns. There was also another email in my inbox at the time - it showed that it was from my webhost (it appeared - except for maybe a sublte change of letter , an i (I) ..changed to an l (L ) maybe.

                        The email claimed that I would have to sign-in and enter my personal info and address etc again. Since their site was doing a check after an attempted hacker may have compromized their database. So they wanted to double check everyones information.
                        The problem was, the webhost wasn't the one sending the letters.

                        After that day, it stuck in my mind how easily I might've used that "click here to update info" link and unknowingly have done that if it hadn't been for the alert email the webhost had sent. From that day on, I wont ever use a link that is in an email. If a website sends a link and requires that I sign-in etc, I'll go to the site manually by opening the browser, putting in the URL.

                        Some might consider it paranoid to never click links inside emails lol , but .. that one day made me realize! I would've fallen for that and never known.
                          • Re: Question About Linking
                            NatOnline Tracker
                            You are right, redirect could affect your site/business. You can even rank lower than the scraper/highjacker. These issues need to be taking care seriously, because you can lost your ranking or in the worst case scenario loose your business, the search engines can considered, that you are not the original, etc...

                            No this is not a paranoid, you need to becareful when someone send you an email, even if there are no links.

                            There are many things behind the scene. Ecommerce are targeted by spamers, highjackers, hackers, copyrights infringement, trademark infringement, suspects bots and crawler, etc...We need to live with that and protect our business, particularely when a site rank high everywhere you are more an more targeted by those.

                            Back to the subject, I found a very nice tool to check the bad neighborhood at
                            -tool.htm that give an idea about the site or pages with links.

                            I am using more and more the no follow tag, because you can link today to a good reputable site, then tomorrow this link could be harmful to your site. So I decided when I am linking to a site to use a no follow tag to avoid any problems.
                              • Re: Question About Linking
                                intech Wayfarer
                                Of course, if everybody uses the "no follow" tag, the basic search engine method for ranking sites comes crashing down, doesn't it?
                                  • Re: Question About Linking
                                    ezprint Wayfarer
                                    rel="nofollow" is good for links that are advertisement links.
                                    Since search engines like Google are penalizing fraud PR (pagerank) hyping, they may be using a relevance strategy to check for the relevance and placement of links.

                                    If you want to link to a site from your website without it counting as a 'vote' from your site, you should use the rel="nofollow"
                                    a working example <a href=" rel="nofollow">

                                    Search engines count all links to other websites as a vote from your site. To find the score of a websites page, they look to see how many other websites are 'voting' for it with a link. They then check the score and relevance of the pages/sites that are voting for your site.
                                    Because of this, many websites with a high PR score were renting links to other websites. (i.e. = "if you pay their website an agreed amount of money per month, they will put a link on their website as a 'vote' for your site. )

                                    But it became obvious to search engines that those link rentals were screwing up the validity and credibility of their rankings systems. The search engines dont want to become irrelevant and a thing of the past, so they must try to remain credible. as a result of the link rentals, search engines have started to try to crack down on all link rentals - and they're doing it by automation and manual reviews.

                                    Google posted a warning to webmasters to alert them to add rel="nofollow" tags to all their paid links ..or to face the consequences.

                                    Hopefully in the long run this will work out for legitimate websites - but the process of how accurate the search engines will be in cracking down on this ,is still pretty much being debated.

                                    The easiest way to remember it , is to realize that any links on your site are counted as a 'vote' for another websites score.
                                    If those sites are irrelevant to your site , you may consider including the rel="nofollow" as rel="nofollow" allows you to link to another site, but ..its telling the search engines= "hey , wait a minute..this is just a friend or a site that I like, so this is not a vote and do not include it into your voting score system. "

                                    The search engines will not consider any rel="nofollows" as votes, and as a result it should take any responsibility or credibility issues off your site for linking to them. Otherwise, if the search engines have a problem with your site's vote.. they may reduce your sites credibility by saying = "this site A voted for site B ..but site B has no relevance, its spammy, and it emails people way too much. so if site B is 'bad' ..then site A must share responsibility for trying to vote for them and trying to give threm credibility.

                                    I suspect that these new methods and 'rules' are trying to make site owners more aware of how and who they link to. It will cause site owners to investigate other websites as opposed to just throwing them a link.
                                      • Re: Question About Linking
                                        NatOnline Tracker

                                        Like I said before, you can link to a relevant site, then discover later that his site contain web ring links. I don't have the time to check everyday the same links to insure correct neighbourhood and prefer to put a no follow tag.


                                        As far as all rental links, I never use it, and never will. Before the Google new algorithms on directories, it was a nice way to get traffic, now traffic is none and only high directories are useful for backlinks. Everyday I am discovering my site in small directories made for adsenses and poor sites where I never submitted. Weird to see some webmasters scrapping all over the net like that.

                                        I am not enthousiast for link swap, reciprocal 2 or 3 ways, and allow rarely links from other sites.
                                          • Re: Question About Linking
                                            Biz Online Adventurer

                                            Hey Jean Luc, Cliff here.
                                            Search engines don't penalize websites for the links that they have incoming, it's only a penalty if you are linking out to link farms, also known as "bad neighborhoods", that could possibly get you in trouble.

                                            No one can control links you get, whether from MFA / made for adsense websites, bad neighborhoods, etc. But you can control the links that you do on your site.

                                            There is nothing wrong with a reciprocal link IF done correctly. If a site you linked to long ago turns bad, that doesn't necessarily mean that your whole site is penalized.

                                            Paid links is a strategy. For instance, the Yahoo directory, one the most important directories on earth, is A PAID LINK, and still highly respected. Keep this in mind, as all paid links are not treated the same.

                                            The point here is linking is a strategy that must be carefully built. There are companies that only specialize in linking, and Google's algorithym has at it's heart links and their characteristics. IF links don't exist, the web doesn't exist, Google doesn't exist, and were back to reading the newspaper...

                                            Case in point: One of my clients, after employing a careful link strategy, we have got their site from #36 in Google to #5 in a very competitive market for a two word competitive phrase. We have video links from YouTube, directory links from Yahoo, DMOZ, Best of the Web, a few high traffic blogs, a mix of banner ads, and lot's of hard link building. The result, #5 in Google, in 133 days.

                                            If you not performing a link strategy, then you are not in the game regarding optimizing your site.
                                            Cliff Koraska
                                              • Re: Question About Linking
                                                NatOnline Tracker
                                                Hello Cliff,

                                                I understand you, but perhaps I did not give enough details. I agree that you are not responsible if someone in badneighborhood link to your site/pages, the problem I had before, techniques used by unethical SEO or webmasters.

                                                Here is an example of what I am trying to say:
                                                  • Re: Question About Linking
                                                    Biz Online Adventurer
                                                    I understand what you are saying about hijacking and such, and it does happen. Happens to my site all the time, because I rank high for a variety of terms, something hijackers look for..

                                                    Back on topic, by having a sound strategy of link building, reciprocals being only one part, will help build up your defenses against site scrappers and hijackers. Also doing 301 permanent redirects from www to non-www, or vice versa, will also help this from occuring, as well as keeping content fresh. I won't prevent it, but it keeps you in good graces with the engines.

                                                    Cliff Koraska
                                                      • Re: Question About Linking
                                                        ezprint Wayfarer
                                                        A way to remember how all the linking and tags and relations work in an easy way for people that don't get that deep into the mess of it all - is just to remember that links to your site count as votes.

                                                        Every site that votes has its own level of credibility and popularity which is measured by Google as their 'PR' or PageRank.

                                                        A rel="nofollow" in any of your links is put there when you dont want to endorse a vote to a site.

                                                        The best links you can get for your site are one-way linkbacks. (when a website links (votes) for your site without your site linking back to them. )

                                                        if you would like to see the linkbacks to your site type into Google " link: "

                                                        You can also check it as wwvv. (without the http:)
                                                        This will give you the bets view of higher votes. Then try (shift backslash to get this = | ) "link|
                                                        You can also do this with competitor sites to see where their links are coming from.

                                                        A good site for checking the score (PR) of your site , and its internal pages individual score is
                                                        It doesnt look very good, but the function is nice.

                                                        You can use sites like the live PR to check your site and competitor sites.

                                                        To start with linking strategy, consider a directory manual directory submission service. You shouldn't be paying more than $250 dollars for 2,000 directory submission. If you have the money to spend on this its a time saver since manual directory submissions can be a real tedius task.

                                                        There is no exact perfect method, only guidelines ..since each site is different and Google and other search engines will measure them according to their own logirithms.

                                                        As a perfect example, several times this has happened to me. I will do complete SEO on a new page, I'll get links and have it routed in a linking structure perfect for what its intended to do. I will have articles and blogs pointing to this page.. but for some reason, sometimes the page will rank low or not at all and some other page that I made and put up without much attention or concern about will get a top 30 search engine ranking.

                                                        So it just goes to show that no matter how much you know about it, the search engine 'secret' way of ranking can be stranger than fiction.
                                                        I've had quite a few pages with no links to them, and no intention of making them 'popular' suddenly pop up in search engines for pretty competitive keywords. So remember not to flush your wallets down the drain chasing SEO. It should be used to help your site and to follow the standards guidelines but in the bigger picture, the search engines prove that they do things how they want - even if nobody understands it 100% lol
                                                          • Re: Question About Linking
                                                            NatOnline Tracker

                                                            I did not use services to submit to directories, even if I have spent a lot of time doing that a few years ago, all the submissions were made manually. I really don't like someone choosing the directories for me as it was very important, and most services do that automatically anyway. Doing your own work will give you better control over the submission process.
                                                              • Re: Question About Linking
                                                                ezprint Wayfarer

                                                                The directory services I was referring to are manual submissions and cover PR 2 to PR 8 directories.
                                                                Technically it would be the same as if you had submitted yourself.

                                                                They usually cover everything from dmoz to the smaller directories.
                                                                But if you like doing that yourself , thats great.
                                                                  • Re: Question About Linking
                                                                    NatOnline Tracker
                                                                    Submissions to directories are fun for first hundreds. I did not save my time, but saved every cents I can for my business which allowed me to pay the review of high traffic directories.

                                                                    I am not a fan of PR, and beleive it or not I had some little directories ranking my site well for some keywords before Google hit this industry. Now they are just good for BL.
                                                                      • Re: Question About Linking
                                                                        ezprint Wayfarer

                                                                        The reason some of those manual submissions are good is because they already have accounts created and they take your information , keywords etc, and use those to submit through accounts they have set up. This saves you from having to track fill out the info, and then open all the emails and respond to activate. Many of them allow you to submit your own list of directories if you want.

                                                                        It saved our company money because submissions is such a tedious task you have to pull your SEOs or programmers off things they could be doing and pay them their wage to submit and get brain numb doing it . lol

                                                                        The manual submission services take average of 10 days to complete the task. for $250 to $299 that's a really good deal in my opinion.

                                                                        But if you prefer doing it by hand, did you know there are manual submission programs to help you at leats speed up the process of entering in your information? When submitting to directories people usually have a notepad or wordpad open with their URL, keywords, description of site ,meta description etc. So they have some decent free programs out on the Internet that will store that information and when you include your directory list. It will go to each directory, and look for the form fields and plug in your info. They're decent, speeds it up, but they have about a 30% 'buggy' ineffective rate where you have to enter the fields manual typing.
                                                                • Re: Question About Linking
                                                                  NatOnline Tracker
                                                                  Yes the 301 is a thing to setup and avoid duplicates of your site for some search engines.
                                                        • Re: Question About Linking
                                                          NatOnline Tracker
                                                          Yes, but think about it a second, Google started this game, and want us to go for their own advertising system which is manipulated. I tried before Adwords, and it wasn't succesful for me, then recieved hits from their system after I closed my Adwords account which confirmed manipulation. Anyway I prefer to rank in organic search, instead of any advertising way except quality directories.
                                                • Re: Question About Linking
                                                  Lighthouse24 Ranger

                                                  As already indicated by ezprint, you find a lot of conflicting information about linking "rules" because a lot of the information you find on-line is just OLD (out-of-date).

                                                  Another problem, as you suggested, is that the SEO experts who blog about the "rules" have their own agendas sometimes. For example, the average company spends between 8 and 9 percent of its advertising budget on Internet marketing strategies (Sources: AdWeek, Booz Allen Hamilton, Interactive Advertising Bureau). Consequently most businesses design their sites to make it easier for a serious customer to commit to the buying decision -- and they rely on other techniques to bring the customer in. Yet entrepreneurs who go into business without a marketing plan often try to use the Internet as their main (or only) method of attracting customers. Some SEO specialists feed on that like sharks, and actually do what I'd consider SES (search engine +sub+-optimization -- i.e., maximizing one component of the search algorithm, as they understand it, to manipulate/produce an allegedly desirable result that may or may not actually increase profits or help the business in the long term).
                                                  • Re: Question About Linking
                                                    Biz Online Adventurer
                                                    I'm an expert in this area, and yes, there is a lot of conflicting information out there.

                                                    I highly recommend reading this article over at Aaron Wall's SEO Book site:

                                                    101 Link Building Tips
                                                    If this can't help you, then I don't know what will.

                                                    There are many types of links, reciprocal being just one of them.

                                                    As far as linking your own site(s) together, just make sure they are on different servers in different locations, as the sites will be recognized to be on the same server if not done. Also, staying within the same or close to the same vertical, or topic area, improves the links. If you have a site about food, another about restaurants, linking these two would be close to the same vertical topic. Now, I usually don't recommend putting a link on every page (I change this up every 90 to 120 days, and use a different blend of keywords, not the same rubber stamp on each page) from one of your sites to another site, but it is free now, isn't it? I do this on one of my sites, and it is quite effective for Yahoo and MSN.

                                                    Going about getting links has many strategies. Reciprocal links are easy, but keep in mind to get links from the same vertical or topic area is important. Getting a link from a Motorcycle website that links to a Food website passes very little link value. Get it?

                                                    Directory links are still important; Yahoo directory being one of the strongest, then others like BOTW (, which are directories that have an editorial / approval process. Search engines still respect authority directories that have a review process, although the value is not as good as it was 5 years ago. :)

                                                    Press release links and article links: Doing press releases and having good anchor text does work well. Also, writing articles and having your link in the biography of the article works, if submitted to the right websites. Lot's of article sites don't allow links, so choose wisely. :)

                                                    Contribute to blogs and communities that allow links. But don't spam blogs with comments and your link in your name. :(

                                                    Enjoy reading the link I sent above; this will really open your eyes.
                                                    Cliff Koraska


                                                    • Re: Question About Linking
                                                      RobTaylor Wayfarer
                                                      Hi intech

                                                      It used to be a seriously flawed science. But Google changed that. In the old days, people would build a link partners page and link between as many sites as they could find. Some people would have a link partners page with hundreds of people on it that they exchanged links with. This was the most important crtiteria (outside of the page title) for Google ranking pages in the old days.

                                                      It does not work anymore. Google changed their SE to put little (if any) weight in to Website popularity based on link partner pages. It is basically ignored.

                                                      However, Google still takes linking in to account along with 99 other things as Google uses 100 different criteria for ranking pages. If your Website is linked from other Websites in prominent places then it is still good. I am not aware of any penalty for linking between Websites you own as long as there is relevant content on both. I have a few Website I own that are linked together in places and I have never seen anything to indicate I am being penalized for it. Just make sure you try and link your Websites in prominent places such as within article or on the home page.

                                                      Hope this helps.

                                                      • Re: Question About Linking
                                                        intechspecial Ranger
                                                        You might want to research "White Hat" and "Black Hat" techniques before you go to much farther.

                                                        "White Hat" techniques are acceptable practices for Search Engine Optimization(SEO).
                                                        "Black Hat" techniques are NOT acceptable, and will get you banned from being listed in a search engine.


                                                        Stay away from ALL BLACK HAT techniques. Search enignes expect that you understand what is right and wrong, and will ban you from being indexed even if you mistakinly used a Black Hat technique.

                                                        I hope this helps.

                                                          • Re: Question About Linking
                                                            ezprint Wayfarer
                                                            Search engines will suspect a 'Black Hat' ..when they assume somebody has made a website as if overnight and then has made a strategy to get as many links as fast as possible with the intention to possibly sell some bogus product or service..and then disappear off the Internet.

                                                            Those types of con sites were happening a lot more than 6 years ago so Google created a strategy against that.

                                                            Google wants to see domain names and websites at least 1 year old before they begin aquiring mass links and activity. This supposedly allows them to believe that your site is more believable in its aquiring activity and links. So they do put first year sites in something many call the Sandbox.

                                                            Its possible that if you aquire 5,000 links in first year that your site could be reviewed or banned.

                                                            But that's where the stipulation comes in.. if you do SEO (search engine optimization) you would've realized that some websites pop up, and then maybe they get real world news coverage, maybe they have done a video or a product ..something that gets them on the national news.
                                                            Those sites suddenly get mass links, and mass traffic. The search engines haven't explained how they filter those yet..but those sites dont usually get banned. If anything, its better to assume that the search engines have publicized a standard that seems very strict , perhaps to keep all websites on their toes. The line between BlackHat and WhiteHat has become blurred in many ways. Usually though if your site takes part in site hijacking, link farmings, and blog teams..thats considered BlackHat. Many peoples dont even realize what true BlackHat would look like , if they're not exceptionally computer savy. That is what can make things skewed.

                                                            For an easy example , consider many of those SEO companies. You pay them and they evaluate your site , its keyword density, and then they'll do whatever their 'secret' is to help move your site up in the search engines and Internet exposure.

                                                            Many would assume = "oh OK, thats nice" You might pay them a lot of money assuming they're doing something real deep in computer world , but you'd assume it legal. But consider another factor the search engines are just now starting to confront as their next BlackHat targets in the battle to tr yto make search engines relevant. The fact that many of those 'SEO companies' ..are just large networks of peoples, some of them from foreign countries like India where they work real cheap.

                                                            Here's what those guys do..
                                                            Imagine their SEO company has 1,000 peoples..they dont work in any building, they're scattered out around the world perhaps..but they all 'work for' a company. They all have accounts at every popular social blogger site, forum, etc. Have you noticed that many sites now will rate 'best of' by how many votes the public gives? Look at and as a few. Now imagine those 1,000 people with accounts on all the popular sites.
                                                            They all vote for your site, but they talk about it in a way that appears as if there's no connection between the peoples. Your site may get moved to front page for being the most popular that day or week. Your site is then sitting on a page that has a extremely high PageRank and not to mention millions of people go through those sites everyday ,and they're definitely going to see your site featured on the front page. There's your traffic and spike in sudden popularity. You look at your stats..and wow, you've jumped fro ma few visitors a day to tens of thousands. That SEO company must REALLY know what they're doing you might say? If you want to keep the traffic and the must continue to hire their services..but guess what? That's considered extreme BlackHat..if they were to get busted..your site gets banned and all the sites they're hovering.

                                                            The search engine companies are still trying to create paths into the Internet to try to create a credible systems for scoring / measuring websites. If they can't do that they obviously wouldn't have jobs or investors anymore they're tyrin to like heck to do it. In the mean time there are tens of millions of webmasters, SEO's , and SEO 'companies' ..that are out there everyday probing the systems and trying to crack search engines ..for the same reasons..its big money to them. If you can take a website for a high end million dollar company and get it placed into the first page of search engines they'll pay a lot of money for it. The next time you're surfing around the Internet, try to see it through 'SEO' perspective.. ask yourself who is really on those popular sites for legitimate purposes, and which are perhaps just large teams of people getting as much exposure for sites they're being paid to promote? If you have been into forums on the Internet you've probably noticed that when you make a post , you'll get a ton of single sentence, responses ..many of them not even in full sentence form. It's because those peoples have a link under their name as their forum 'signature' and it creates a link back to their site on every forum page they post to.

                                                            So peoples that just want to play fair and get their sites listed high.. be aware that 'highly competitive keywords' are being crawled over like ants by all those companies and SEOs etc..because thats where the big money is at for them right now. If you have to use those types of keywords, make sure you make articles , tons of them.. get people writing one or more a day at least filled with unique ways of naming your keywords. This creates 'long tail phrases' . Imagine if widgets was your keyword for what youre tyring to sell and if you could barely stay on the 3rd page of Google let alone the first page.. in your articles ifyou had written about "Widgets in California" "Widgets in Nevada" etc .. along with "Color Widgets" and "Custom Widgets" etc.
                                                            what happens is, you become more of an authority of those long tail key phrases. When people type "Widgets" into Google..those other sites pop up, but theres still search traffic for people that type specifically = "Widgets in California" etc.

                                                            That's what search engines want anyway, they want to break down the mass bulk into specific targeted areas ..that will keep peoples basically hogging up the keywords and deterring others from the Internet. Then they will use their adwords so that you can pay for ads in your target zone , while also trying to make your site relevant and an 'authority' adding tons and tons of content. The search engines would obviously like to see it where all SEO teams are replaced by content writers. Then you'll hire people to write about your company, products etc ..instead of trying to hype your site on popularity websites. Ever wonder why companies make those free sites like MySpace and YouTube and Dig etc ? Those sites end up getting PageRanks of 8 and 9's .. millions of people linked and interlinked to them, and the sites become Popularity wells. They're perhaps the search engines biggest threat right now. Since those sites want the high PR rankings and they make their sites so that public gets to vote. Those vote systems can be exploited, the sites wouldnt really care so long as they have high PR. That PR gets first pages in Google and other search engines. It'll be interesting to see as search engines perhaps start canceling those sites credibility factors. The Internet is the wild west but its slowly being domesticated as the search engines keep sending in more and more Sheriffs into virtual town. Problem is though, the bandits and outlaws keep finding ways to hijack them gold trains so far.. In the mean time if you're a townsfolk that dont want to get involved in all that but yet you want your site store to show up in existence of search engines... do the articles, long tail phrases, get listed in directories lots of them after your site is over 1 yr old .. do pay per click Adwords on Google, Yahoo, and MSN...and add new articles every week. 10 per week at least. and make sure to put them all in your sitemap.xml

                                                            The battles in the wild west wage on.. ever notice when you search for a new site see most of them names are taken..but when you go to that site..its just as if a parked domain with lots of crap links? .. Those are sites that SEO and other companies bought up..they're either holding them so we cant get them..OR , they're letting them get past that 1 yr point. (the older your site is..the more credibility its given by search engines.)
                                                            So what youre seeing basically an SEO wine rack.. with all them domain names being aged and prepared for some actual big site.. at some point.
                                                            Unless the Google Sheriffs can stop it ..all them wine racks going to be gettin bootlegged like running moonshine by the outlaws.

                                                            One of our companies main keywords would be something like "brochures" ..we cant get our wagon through that territory without getting hijacked by bandits or stopped every 2 seconds by the Sheriff outposts.. but if you search "color large envelopes" and all kinds of long tail phrases , we get the wagon through to #1 placement. Its not as high of traffic as brochures would be.. but when you add up a whole lots of them long tail phrases.. it gets some of the townsfolk through to find our store sittin out there on the wild west Internet prarie

                                                            So good luck.. and dont say Dakota! lol
                                                              • Re: Question About Linking
                                                                intechspecial Ranger
                                                                Here are just a few examples of black hat techniques, and then the correct white hat technique in SEO.

                                                                Black Hat: You have a white background on your website. In the empty space of where their is not wording or images you place <h1></h1> tags with a white font. The h1 tag is repeated over and over and over and over again.

                                                                White hat: You write 7 seperate artilces with the <h1> tag as the heading. Each heading has your keywork within it. You repeat the keyword in the article several times, but use appropriate grammar. You also have an image that has the alt tag with your keyword.


                                                                Black Hat: In your meta tag, you repeat your keyword 37 times. You then repeat the same meta over and over, up maybe up to 12 copies of the same meta tag.

                                                                White Hat: Your meta tag matches your keywords, and is written with limited amount of keywords, and you do not repeat the keyword more then 3-4 times.


                                                                Black Hat techniques will have you purposely excluded.

                                                                Correct implementation of White Hat techniques will bring in a few visitors to your site, every hour of every day.