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    39 Replies Latest reply on Dec 19, 2007 10:04 AM by DomainDiva

    Your business, online

    E.Donkersloot Newbie
      Hello

      Time is money and thus I'll be brief. Reading around the forums I noticed many small business entrepenours fail to take advantage of the internet and this because they lack the experience or time needed to launch their own business website. In my free time I have decided to put up my own website with some resources and do it yourself guides for the beginner internet user in his challenge to build a website. Link: http://money-4-you.info

      Also I seen the great demand there is for webmasters and people willing to pay hundreds for easy to code websites, if you like my website and trust my skills I'd be happy to build up one for your business for far less than you would pay to a certified webmaster, who might do pretty much the same. If you are after the basic need of just publishing your business online for example, a restaurant website, this is a very easy task that requires no advanced coding and I could fulfill in 1 or 2 weeks.

      Sincerly,
      Edward Donkersloot
        • Re: Your business, online
          LUCKIEST Guide
          Welcome to the forum. I will continue to explore your website and will be in touch this week.
          Good luck, LUCKIEST
          • Re: Your business, online
            CorpCons08 Ranger
            Will check it out and post what I find...
            • Re: Your business, online
              CorpCons08 Ranger

              E.Donkersloot,

               


              I took a few minutes to review your website. I think you may have something here. Very often you see people offering to design websites and develop features to websites, but it is very rare to find a service teaching people how to build websites themselves. I think you can make something of this service. Although I personally do not have a need for this service, I am sure there are people out there willing to pay to learn to develop pages. Best wishes to you on your venture and if you need any consulting help, please feel free to contact me.

               


              CorpCons08
              • Re: Your business, online
                Lighthouse24 Ranger

                In that you requested first impression feedback, mine was that you mainly teach people to build websites full of ads that pass revenue to/from other websites full of ads. If a real business with real products and real customers (like the restaurant you described) needs to launch a simple website, there are possibly better options I'd suggest (template sites, inexpensive DIY tools, free classes and assistance at local community colleges, etc.). Sites with irrelevant advertising can hurt a legitimate business far more than they help.
                  • Re: Your business, online
                    CorpCons08 Ranger
                    Where did you find out about advertising?
                      • Re: Your business, online
                        Lighthouse24 Ranger

                        How did I find out about advertising on the site? I visited it, and waded through more than 40 on two pages, counting pop-ups and rollovers, while trying to figure out what tool was being offered to business owners. Someone visiting a restaurant site wants relevant information (menus, hours, maps, reservations), and they don't generally want to wade through the latest on Britney Spears, Little Green Footballs, or MLM opportunities to find it.

                        As I wrote in my feedback, that was my first IMPRESSION of the site/offer -- doesn't necessarily mean that's all there is to it.
                          • Re: Your business, online
                            E.Donkersloot Newbie
                            I dont think you visited the rigth website, since my website does not have pop-ups or rollovers, and the only ads are AdSense ads which provide advertising related to content, relevant ads. So it is impossible you encountered your self with britney spears or sport ads.
                              • Re: Your business, online
                                Lighthouse24 Ranger

                                Tried again, then copied and pasted:

                                "Money for you is not yet another website claiming you that there's a secret to earn money with out doing anything . . . we'll teach you how to create your own web-pages, blogs, e-Commerce . . . give you the tips and advertising programs in which you can participate for free . . ."

                                 

                                So, is this the place?

                                Got different offers this time (including one that would earn a "keep it clean" message from the moderator if I described it here).
                        • Re: Your business, online
                          LUCKIEST Guide
                          Tell us with all this input, What Next?? Have you picked up new business??
                          LUCKIEST
                          • Re: Your business, online
                            Adventurer
                            Yes, time IS money, and how many small biz folks, who are already stretched to the limit, since they must wear every hat (president, chief clerk and bottlewasher), has time to through away on properly learning web development (graphics, design, layout, color theory, information flow, useability, accessibility, html, css, ftp, seo, database driven php/mysql: just to name a few skills - grin)???

                            Yes, there are a lot of so-called webdev firms out there (aka idiots) who have ripped off countless businesses. But the entire industry is not evil or just out to steal money. I know that I am not, as a webdev pro 9 years and counting (wouldn't be able to count 9 years if I was a crook or an idiot).

                            That said, DIY is fine, if it's something you want to spend a LOT of time on (you got time, knock yourself out). There are thousands of recipe websites, and chefs/restaurants around the world are not quaking in their boots at the thought. So these types of websites don't threaten me - but they do sadden me a lot.

                            Why? I learned the basics of chess at a young age - took abotu 10 minutes to learn how all the pieces can move. But that did not make me a chess master. I also learned there are 8 notes in a musical scale - that's it. But that doesn't make me the next great composer, or even a mediocre one.

                            What I mean to say is learning the basics from a book or website tutorial is great, but don't fool yourself into thinking your going to build a website that people actually can find via a search engine, and then when they arrive, will want to stick around and interact with it (or even can!).

                            Sure, some people will do just that - make a great website all by themselves. No doubt. Just as some weekend-kitchen-warriors could put together an amazing meal, 9 courses, make Emeril jealous. But those are exceptions, not the rule.

                            The rule is, web dev is not easy, not learned in a weekend, and costs you far more in lost income, lost time, and lost customers if you do it wrong. Don't you have about a bazillion other things to do than build a website for your business?

                            I hire and enjoy the services of experts outside my field: my accountant, my lawyer, even the folks that hem my pants at the cleaners - I have no idea how to do that, but they do, and do it well, and I am happy to pay for the service and convenience.

                            On top of all that, this website in question has a few flaws:
                            1. it suggests one use templates (pre-designed websites). I've purchased a few 'nice looking' templates, just to see what was under the hood. It burns, even with the goggles on! Horribly structured nested tables as far as the eye can see - so 1999, and so hard to maintain, and worse for search engines trying to drill for content, buried under layers and layers of bad coding.

                            2. put ads on your website. Even this website has some censored ads running in the boxes. You want that? Or maybe you want other restaurants advertising on your website? (very strong possibility if you don't know how to set it all up properly). And why run ads to TAKE PEOPLE AWAY, when you worked so hard to get them TO your website. The basic premise is flawed.

                            3. and if all else fails (which it will - I think that's almost built in assumption), call us (the website owner) - we do websites cheap. Which defeats the DIY angle, no? (again, that's what I think is really the purpose).

                            So yes, feel free to throw rocks at the professional webdev person kicking the DIY website. But that's not really the case, if you carefully read what I wrote. DIY is great, if you CAN DYI (grin). But don't fool yourself that you're saving any money by not paying the mean old webdev person - what's your TIME worth for a truly professional website that is search engine friendly, ranks well, is easy to navigate, fast to download, simple to maintain and looks great too?

                            In the end, bad or no design will cost you far more than a well designed website.
                            (the cheap comes out expensive).

                            Mike
                              • Re: Your business, online
                                CorpCons08 Ranger
                                Wow. Nice analysis MT...
                                • Re: Your business, online
                                  Campbell Wayfarer
                                  Agreed MTCreations, web design is one of those industries where people just don't understand the value of the business. Combine that with so many people shortchanging themselves with low, low fees and you have a business model that's in the crapper. Yet, it wouldn't make sense to build a website yourself unless that's your business.

                                  Wouldn't attempt to build your own office would you???

                                  -Campbell
                                  http://www.campbelltechnologygroup.com
                                    • Re: Your business, online
                                      CorpCons08 Ranger
                                      I might try to build my own office.
                                      I knew nothing about web design and I am building my own page and it is coming out beautiful.
                                      You can teach yourself things, it's amazing what the human brain is capable of.
                                      I don't understand why people are so against education all of a sudden.
                                      Just to prove you all wrong, I am going to build my own office space.
                                      I will take photos of the progress.

                                      CorpCons08
                                        • Re: Your business, online
                                          Campbell Wayfarer
                                          It appears that you're not properly leveraging your time, and subsequently undervalue the little time you have.
                                          • Re: Your business, online
                                            Adventurer
                                            Actually, that reply ("and it's coming out beautiful") captures a huge portion of why DIY can get you into so much trouble.

                                            First, I can't see it, so I have no idea if it truly is beautiful or not. But that's beside the point - if you think it looks great, then great.

                                            But I have to ask: how long does it take to download? Is it optimized?

                                            And the code used: search engine friendly? I don't mean key phrases and meta tags, I mean actual code that separates structure from presentation (using CSS, not tables and inline font/styles).

                                            Do you have embedded javascript (for rollovers or windows, or other features) in the top of every page?

                                            How easy is it to update content? Can you update the content and not touch the design?

                                            I'm not throwing rocks, I'm simply pointing out a handful of the ten thousand little (and big) things that I must do for my clients as a prof. web dev shop. So many times, people fall in love with what is little more than a Hollywood piece set (like in a sitcom) - looks great, but don't look behind the scenes.

                                            Again, my post was not against DIY or learning - knock yourself out if it makes you happy, and gets you what you consider acceptable results.
                                              • Re: Your business, online
                                                CorpCons08 Ranger

                                                I...as have many other business owners, was ripped off by a web designer.
                                                He took my money and ran.

                                                Now, to answer your questions.

                                                1.) The website is not viewable to anyone but me at the moment as I am finishing up some minor touches that I wanted changed.

                                                 


                                                2.) Yes, I have used CSS throughout my site and it is search engine friendly. Did not take me long to learn CSS.

                                                 


                                                3.) All of my rollovers are embedded javascript, including image swap on rollover. Again, did not take long to learn.

                                                 


                                                4.) It is not that hard to update the content, just a matter of adding and removing the text I want. I would eventually like to have it so I can submit new news without having to edit the HTML file at all, but I am learning still.

                                                 


                                                I have great respect for web designers that are honest. Unfortunately I was ripped off and I do not wish to spend a fortune again for nothing.

                                                 

                                                Perhaps one of you would like to optimize my design for me? That would be greatly appreciated.

                                                 


                                                Give me a proposal for the cost of optimizing a 7 page website and perhaps you have a job.

                                                 


                                                CorpCons08
                                                  • Re: Your business, online
                                                    Campbell Wayfarer
                                                    LOL, you can't use CSS "throughout" a website (it's a file type), and javascript is horrible for search engines. You should just go off of referrals if you're scared of getting ripped off.
                                                    • Re: Your business, online
                                                      Adventurer
                                                      When you talk about a 7 page website that you'd entertain a quote on optimization, do you mean the actual website that is linked to your profile on this forum? I'm being circumspect, instead of just typing the web address, since you never mention it yourself.

                                                      If so, I looked at that website, and if that's what you saved $1500, and used CSS on, well, I hope your shed building business does well. Trying to be gentle here. But the entire site is tables with embedded, repeated styles, but its all wrapped around content as graphics (!!). In other words, SE blind!!! I could go on (* it burns, even with the goggles*), but I won't (grin).

                                                      As I said earlier in this thread, I am so very sorry you've been burnt, but geez, now you've gone and set yourself on fire!

                                                      Oh, and my quote: $2,800 - custom design, SEOptimized, 10 pages, contact form, google sitemap/inclusion, pure html/css. 9 years, lots of clients, happy testimonials. You either get it or you don't.

                                                      SEO example: great website design - see #4 or #5 (depends if you count the indented 'related' item) - from NOTHING a month ago (brand new website).

                                                      Need another: accent modification long island - see #2 and #3 - up from nowhere a few weeks ago.

                                                      (the results in question are either my website or my clients)

                                                      That's the difference between DIY/home brewed, and professionally done.
                                                    • Re: Your business, online
                                                      Campbell Wayfarer
                                                      Not to mention is it W3C compliant, XHTML clean coded, what about the internal link structure? Is the information architecture scalable? I think four hours is too fast by my standards, it took me weeks to do this website (http://www.sirosTV.com) and now it brings in over 400 visitors every day organically. If you run it through a text browser you'll see how search bot friendly it is. I'm not trying to pat myself on the back, but quality and compliance is far more important than looks.

                                                      I can probably build a shed if I tried, but I'm better off picking up a contractor for various reasons.
                                                • Re: Your business, online
                                                  zone451 Wayfarer
                                                  I was one of those who likes all graphics stuff bliking ads pop under, pop ups and whatever.brilliant colors and whatever

                                                  But I have to abandon my dream to be a Digital Art designer and I built my website just as simple
                                                  keeping in mind just an easy way to place an order. and providing just basic information about my products and benefits that they can obtain.

                                                  Web design never ends I am always changing and improving my web pages, I know that I still have many errors due mainly that I have not a good command in the english language, but my web site is providing me
                                                  a good return after eight years.

                                                  There is nothing so perfect just only God.

                                                  Improving never ends I always learning from others.

                                                  Great analysis and a clear response. I agree witn MTC

                                                  • Re: Your business, online
                                                    dmgousse Newbie
                                                    You are so right MT. Everytime we try to cut corners, we pay more in the end (hiring a handyman to do the job of a construction company, hiring a bookkeeper to do the job of a CPA, etc.). An ounce of prevention is worth of pound of cure --translated "Pay now or really pay later.

                                                    I used to be signed up with Martindale Hubbell. They provided me with a template that I was supposed to build myself. I tried and did not do well because I don't have the time of that type of work...I am an attorney. I'm no longer with the service; however, the webpage is still there. I have no idea if it's mine or not to tweek. It seems as if you know what you're talking about. Can you look at the page and tell me if I have to start all over again, and if so, whether you can help and what's your fee.

                                                    Thanks
                                                    • Re: Your business, online
                                                      dmgousse Newbie

                                                      I forgot to include the website: http://www.hearnelaw.com.
                                                    • Re: Your business, online
                                                      Lighthouse24 Ranger
                                                      Oh no, I was just eating this debate up with a spoon!
                                                      • Re: Your business, online
                                                        LUCKIEST Guide
                                                        So much fun, have a great week, LUCKIEST
                                                          • Re: Your business, online
                                                            CorpCons08 Ranger

                                                            We just want to make sure everybody gets a chance to post sincere feedback and criticism without being nasty.
                                                            That is all I am saying. CorpCons08
                                                              • Re: Your business, online
                                                                DomainDiva Ranger
                                                                The Diva chiming in with a huge case of total guilt!!!! My web designer is local and my ISP in Angels Camp CA, I have a design liason at GR and so far everything has run so smoothly for changes and upgrades we make. (major change in works now...) I haven't had to deal with all of the awful issues the rest of you have had to deal with designers doing not so hot jobs....

                                                                We did have one little glitch though when we sent our first CD into GR, the young man assigned to our account changed everything about the design and made the website look boxy without being instructed to, even added pictures of people we did not know and made up a lot of 'stuff'. I was in Korea when I got an email and completely flipped out. It actually got really nasty between my designer and the ISP web person until my CTO and the owner stepped in...now its all settled with instructions NOT to mess with Jims design. Point is design has two sides and a lot of times...those sides don't meet up very well...as evidenced by the conversation here.
                                                            • Re: Your business, online
                                                              RB4711 Newbie
                                                              I visited your website and it has great information. I did not see any information on web hosting site security and I believe that is a much overlooked area for most web site owners. I have been in web hosting for over 4 years and find it very interesting how most web sites are under secure. You contact page and mailing list need to be protected and all good sites should have a privacy policy page. There are simple ways that web site owners can protect their web sites in one day by applying a few simple ways and doing a few simple steps. Relying on your web hosting company alone because they say they backup is not a good idea. On the phone last night with a client who had lost their web site content and could not get it back from their web provider. This client does not host their web site with me but I provide online database management services for their web site. I had a copy of the website that they were able to load and everything is fine. Security in my option does not just mean keeping the bad guys out but also, have a plan in place in case of disaster. I hope to see more information on your web site about securing web sites and if you need help, I will be happy to provide an article, links and free seminar on the issue. Great start to a great web site which can be helpful to any business online.