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    12 Replies Latest reply on Dec 1, 2008 3:16 PM by NatOnline

    Business Debate Round Two

    intechspecial Ranger
      Who is up for a debate?

      I do not wish to argue, but only offer some friendly points of view where their might be differences of opinion.

      Maybe we could have the members of the community then vote on their opinion as to what view is correct.

      Who would like to open the floor?
        • Re: Business Debate Round Two
          intechspecial Ranger
          I will open the floor.

          I think the idea of having a business debate forum is an extremely bad idea.

          Anyone else agree?
          • Business Debate - What do YOU think?
            NoBullFunding Scout
            I like the idea intech. This forum seems to have become 95% people looking for loans or investors, and any post that doesnt fall into that realm gets ignored. Maybe an interesting debate will get people more interested in topics other than where to find money with no money and bad credit.

            How about this for a debate topic: *_Is working for yourself really worth the trouble?_</strong<br />
            I've reached the conclusion that NO, its not. Small businesses fail at a rate of 80%, costing the individual thousands of dollars (if not 10's or 100's of thousands) in the process. Most people want to have their own business because they want to "not have to answer to anyone", which in MOST cases simply means that they don't like being told what to do. What the people who say this don't realize that when you have your own business, you still must answer to somone. Instead of a manager, it's rude customers.

            Let's do a side by side comparison:

            Hours Worked - With an Office Job, you can work at an office for 40 hours per week. When you leave, you get to leave all the stress behind and not think about it again until you return. When I had my own retail business, I was working 60 hours per week (for virtually no paycheck). Even when I wasn't there, I was thinking about what I needed to be doing and worrying about that the help that was there was doing a poor job.

            Benefits: When you work for yourself, you have no health insurance, dental, vision etc. You have to pay for it at a rate that is much higher than a corporate group rate.

            Earnings: Most small businesses break even for at least 3 years, which means you basically will get a paycheck just large enough to pay your bills. That's assuming that you aren't accumulating debt to keep your dream afloat. When you work for someone else, you get a paycheck every 2 weeks regardless of how the business is doing.

            Risk: If you open a small business, there is an 80% chance that you will fail, which presumable means that there is an 80% chance that you will lose your investment. If you work for someone else, there is no upfront investment. The worst that could happen is that you lose your job and have to go find another one.

            Stress Level - If your business fails, you risk losing more than just a paycheck. You risk losing your home and ruining your personal credit if you default on your loan obligations. That's a lot to deal with. Working for somone else might have some stress, but you always know that you will get paid and you don't have to worry about things like people stealing from you, dealing with mean customers, and keeping your eye on unmotivated employees. No matter what happens when you are working for someone else, it's not your problem at the end of the day.
              • Re: Business Debate - What do YOU think?
                DomainDiva Ranger
                Coming from the airline world I disagree...TOTALLY! No more locked doors, lost paychecks, lost 401k, pensions etc. Now my living is up to me and what I do each and every day to make it happen instead of depending on some coporate entity that could care less about the workers.
                • Re: Business Debate - What do YOU think?
                  Lighthouse24 Ranger

                  As for NoBullFunding's debate question, "Is working for yourself really worth the trouble?" . . .

                  I've said in other posts that I'd be much better off financially and have a much calmer and simpler existence if I hadn't make the leap to self-employment. For me, however, that wouldn't be "living."

                  I had good jobs with good employers, but even so, I never felt that they were utilizing my skills and abilities to the extent that I could on my own (after all, they were in business to maximize stockholder profit, not to facilitate my personal and professional self-actualization).

                  So, yep, now I've got all sorts of troubles on a daily basis -- but I believe I was blessed with the temperament and intelligence to effectively deal with most of them, and to ultimately make a more positive contribution to the world around me than I would have as someone's "employee." How could I do anything else?
                  • Re: Business Debate - What do YOU think?
                    dwmccutch Wayfarer
                    I strongly disagree that small businesses or home based businesses are a waste of time. While some businesses are not very good and could be considered foolhearty, it is up to each person to research every opportunity they might choose to invest in. What I would like to point out is that this country was founded on small businesses and home based businesses. In my area of the country, the large companies that once employed thousands of people have either closed their doors, or have reduced their employees to maybe a few hundred employees. The trick is to find a business that is beneficial to the population in your part of the country. I am from the Northeastern part of the country and what works here might not work in the western states. I have been extremely fortunate that my business works all over the country and is recession proof. It took some time finding this but it works!
                    Economists have been saying for a number of years that large corporations that once employed thousands of people are now being replaced thousands of small companies that will employ maybe tens or even up to 100 people. Being your own boss is a very nice concept but it does take commitment and work. Doesn't it make sense though to keep the money that a larger corporation would make from you working for them, put those funds in your pocket, and then use those same funds to get you business running successful. It can be scary to start. Just do not listen to the naysayers and surround yourself with positive people. If you already have employment but would still like to have your own business, my recommendation would be to start your business part time until you really start to expand. You must be able to replace your current income before you can run your business full time. I know people that have done this and they are quite successful. They have more than doubled their income from their previous job and they are very excited.
                    It is very satisfying to work for yourself, but it isn't for everyone.
                    • Re: Business Debate - What do YOU think?
                      puzzleman Tracker
                      I enjoy working for myself as I do not have to worry about how someone else's decision will affect my life. I have been laid off three different times with three different companies. The reasons were: Mgt made some wrong decisions and we have to correct them; Sales are down; I (the owner) made a couple of bad marketing decisions, so we need to reduce our labor because of low sales.

                      I like that I make my own decisions concerning my future and my life. No one else can screw it up but me.
                      I LOVE what I do and wouldn't trade it for any other job (except being a gazillionaire).

                      I get upset when I hear people getting laid off saying that they deserve the job and should keep them on no matter what. Since when does anyone get guaranteed a job no matter what in the USA??

                      I will get off of my soapbox now.

                      Thank you, Jim
                    • Re: Business Debate Round Two
                      LUCKIEST Guide
                      *Business Debate Round Two What happened to "*Business Debate ONE"

                      To debate is NOT to argue and yes many of the posts have been friendly points of view.

                      I personally have learned much wisdom from reading the posts and also hope that I have helped others with my answers to their questions.

                      What is the point of voting on opinions. This is NOT school and there is no such thing as correct when it comes to opinions.

                      LUCKIEST
                        • Re: Business Debate Round Two
                          intechspecial Ranger
                          I am in complete and total debate with you on this one Luckiest, you will find no argument from me, as you have turned the table on my opinions.

                          Also, I am in agreement, that this community needs more substanance.

                          I am trying to slow down on my posting, considering my background, and how people will view this forum if they find out my "personal details".

                          For this community to be a complete success, I think this is a viable and positive solution for me to try and slow down at times. I might "mass post" on occasion so that I can stay at the top of the board, but will try and allow the community more "substance".

                          This is not to say that I cannot offer substance to this board, as I know everyone feels different here. The problem is that many will be turned off because of my "disability". This is not my perception, only my experience

                          Please excuse me if this opinion changes shortly, but please know that I am trying to be a assest and not a liablity.

                          Thank you.
                        • Re: Business Debate Round Two
                          rieson Newbie
                          I'm new to this community and hope you don't mind if I chime in on this topic.

                          The reason I found this site is because I was searching for a way to get some funding for my small business and yes, my personal credit is bad. My credit was excellent until a few years ago, when a series of circumstances changed my life and I'm trying to recover.

                          There is nothing wrong with the corporate life and I loved it, BUT it is not always the best for everyone. I have been through corporate buyouts, downsizing and restructuring in management. Don't even talk to me about no-compete agreements that restrict you from making a living. Yes, I went to my attorney and if I continue they could sue me. To be honest I can't afford to defend myself right now.

                          I loved the corporate life and worked all aspects up to higher management & sales. What I've learned is invaluable and I have tons of knowledge to run my own business.

                          I started my own business part-time last January and it is going better than I could ever imagine. Yes there are drawbacks and worries, but for the first time in many years I have control over my own destiny.

                          Best of all, I am finally doing something that I absolutely LOVE. This isn't a job, it's a dream come true and what I pour into it comes from my heart. My customers know it, see it and feel it. All I need is some financing to expand my business and do some aggressive advertising/marketing to make this a full-time and very profitable career.

                          The only worry I have with it right now is with my "other" job. That company is in serious financial trouble and I'm afraid they won't make it through January. I've been through that before with no backup for income & don't ever want to be in that position again.
                          • Re: Business Debate Round Two
                            NatOnline Tracker
                            That's a very interesting thread.

                            It is a great challenge for me to be owner of the company I am running with my wife. It was pretty hard to start our business, but after 3 years of hard work ( long days, nights, week ends, etc...), we are proud of our results. Make no mistakes, we are constantly working hard to make happy our customers, maket our business, and offering the best combinaisons to show our products compare to our competitors..

                            Some people prefere to work for corporations, other take the risks to launch a business, it is people choice. Yes, there is a high risk to fail, but it is worth it to give a try. It also depends of each individual. You need luck, work, and motivation.

                            There is no easy way to make a living, never give up it's what I kept in mind all the time.