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6 Replies Last post: Apr 11, 2009 3:44 PM by dublincpa

S-corp president paying myself with 1099

Apr 5, 2009 9:50 AM

Click to view captgriggs's profile Start-up captgriggs 1 posts since
Apr 5, 2009

Frankly I'm quite worried now. I've been with an accountant for about 3 years now who took over from the one I was with since I went into business 3 years prior to that, she reduced clients due to health. They set me up as an S corp and said that is alright to pay my wife and myself with a 1099 since all we do is professional services for the business, live in another state from the business and we both work other full time jobs. The business has 2 other people that we contract the work out to. There's barely enough income now days to cover them, we pay ourselves every few months. The only reason we're keeping this thing alive is because, we have created and keeping 2 hard working Americans working in a struggling economy. Other than that, this whole thing would be history!

Basically, I found a alot of major errors in my tax returns (like companies that I didn't even work for) last so I used Turbo Tax and filed mine version instead of the accountants. I've been curious about other things when I ran across of these forums stating that what we're doing is wrong. Do I need some advice or are we doing it correctly?

My wife and I do not physically work at the company, we only process invoices, checks, taxes for the biz and pay the biz bills, that's it. If we have to go to a payroll system it will then increase the burden on us and increase the cost of doing business which the biz is already in a check to check status, I'm not sure if I can keep the biz open then.

Now as for the accountants continuing to file us this way, whats up with that? Can they be held responsible if we get in trouble? That's why we pay accountants for their services, to know the laws. If I knew all of the laws, why would I need to pay them $1200 - $1600 a year?

Any advice is greatly accepted!!!

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Click to view ozkary's profile Professional ozkary 5 posts since
Mar 22, 2009
1. Re: S-corp president paying myself with 1099 Apr 5, 2009 1:42 PM
Hello,

All my income comes from my S-Corp, and I have been told that paying yourself as a 1099 is OK. I however decided to give me a W2 and manage my payroll. The problem with payroll is that you need to pay for the payroll service and pay social security and unemployment taxes. If the business is not doing that well, a 1099 and estimated tax payments will be a less expensive solution.

I hope this can help.
Click to view dublincpa's profile Mogul dublincpa 165 posts since
Jan 29, 2008
2. Re: S-corp president paying myself with 1099 Apr 6, 2009 3:29 PM

Reporting S Corp officers' comp on a 1099 is rarely acceptable. The severity of the issue is of course driven by the dollar amounts involved.


Feel free to contact me with any questions.

Click to view ExpenseMentor's profile Professional ExpenseMentor 5 posts since
Apr 11, 2009
3. Re: S-corp president paying myself with 1099 Apr 11, 2009 11:13 AM
Hello. Ok, you are all tangled up. The first thing is that when you are paid with a 1099 that is "independent contractor" income. This means that you are going to pay "self employment" taxes on the income. This could be as high as 15.3%, depending on the amount of your other w-2 income. This is worse than paying yourself a salary and using payroll, because at least when you use payroll the business can write off half the tax to offset other income.

I am not suggesting that you use payroll to recieve income from the business. Because you don't "actively" work for the business you can receive what are called "distributions". A distribution is income that is not subject to "employment taxes"; the incorporated business version of "self employment taxes". This income is considered "passive" income, which is the benefit you recieve for owning the business. It is treated just like rental income for tax purposes. Basically label any income that you receive as a distribution.

Pass that I would also look into business tax deductions that could provide non-taxable income to you, and or pay for business related expenses that you could get personal benefit of, for example, business meals, etc.

Also, on another subject you may want to make sure that your "minutes & resolutions" are completed and in order. I have some free templates that I can send you if you would like.

If you would like more information, contact me and we can chat. Hope this helps!
Click to view dublincpa's profile Mogul dublincpa 165 posts since
Jan 29, 2008
4. Re: S-corp president paying myself with 1099 Apr 11, 2009 12:26 PM
in response to: ExpenseMentor
Actually, you deduct the employer half of self employment tax the same as you would the employer portion of FICA. It is tax neutral. Paying on a 1099-MISC and paying SE tax is better than taking only distributions and no wages. It is just the wrong way. It ends up having the same result unless you start trying to write off bogus non business expenses, which a lot of people try to avoid paying the SE tax.

Using distributions to avoid payroll taxes is an IRS hot topic for S Corps. If the business is profitable and you perform management level services beyond what an investor in a business with non owner management would do, you need to take a reasonable W-2. If you are the only shareholders and officers, you need to take some W-2 wages. It doesn't have be a lot, but nothing is the worst thing you can do. If you take nothing, more likely than not EVERY dollar of distributions would be reclassified as taxable wages for every year that is open to audit (usually three years).

If you take no moeny out of the business outside of legit business expense reimbursements, you have no issue. It is only when non FICA taxable cash comes out to you that you have a problem.

If you paid your SE tax and didn't try to write off garbage like inappropriate home office deductions, bogus mileage or taking your family to dinner, you should be in ok shape. You might get audited, but if the net tax that you paid is equivalent to what you would have paid on a W-2, the auditor will likely pass on any adjustments. Substance would likely prevail over form.

The ideal form would be to reimburse yourself for as many legit documented business expenses as possible first, then take a small but reasonable W-2 for at least one of you. Then the remainder of cash taken could be the type of distribution mentioned.

However, I definitely second the importance of keeping up the corporate minute book. One of the most annoying things is giving an auditor three years worth of minutes are resolution hoping the still wet ink doesn't smudge.

My contact info is in my profile. Please feel free to contact me if you aren't sure how to go.

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Click to view ExpenseMentor's profile Professional ExpenseMentor 5 posts since
Apr 11, 2009
5. Re: S-corp president paying myself with 1099 Apr 11, 2009 12:41 PM
in response to: dublincpa
Actually, if you do "no work" for the business and own it, it is NOT a red flag to the irs. It is a legitamate distribution. If you are doing work, then take a compensation that is adequate for work completed. And I would not recommmend that you use "bogus" deductions. See the tax information at www.expensementor.com, to make sure that you do not write off deductions that do not meet IRS requirements i.e., "taking your family to dinner" which is definitely not adviseible.

And w-2 wage, and 1099 income do not have the same tax outcome of passive income.
Click to view dublincpa's profile Mogul dublincpa 165 posts since
Jan 29, 2008
6. Re: S-corp president paying myself with 1099 Apr 11, 2009 3:44 PM
in response to: ExpenseMentor
"They set me up as an S corp and said that is alright to pay my wife and myself with a 1099 since all we do is professional services for the business..." I interpret that to mean more than no work is being done.

I apologize if it sounded like I was making an accusation. The path you suggested is prone to serious abuse. Some intentional and some as the result of bad or incomplete advice sometimes advice from other business owners. It is usually something like,"I was at a network marketing seminar and the speaker said...." I give the benefit of the doubt that they understand their businesses, but it is abundantly clear that they don't they shouldn't be giving tax advice to others when you hear it.

I did check out the website. It was very interesting. I am curious who is making tax related recommendations and interpretations. I don't see anything on that.