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8 Replies Last post: Apr 15, 2009 2:39 PM by DomainDiva

Payroll - best options for a small business

Oct 11, 2007 9:26 AM

Click to view VinoNow's profile Start-up VinoNow 1 posts since
Oct 11, 2007
I have 3 employees and was considering using ADP to do our payroll processing. Not sure if there's better alternatives as it's $55-75 per pay period (for us that is semi-monthly) so we'll be spending $150 per month on it. Are there better alternatives that aren't too labor intensive?
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Click to view GBolden's profile Start-up GBolden 1 posts since
Oct 11, 2007
1. Re: Payroll - best options for a small business Oct 11, 2007 9:30 AM
in response to: VinoNow

Yes, there are other companies that offers outsorucing payroll such as ADP and Paychex. My firm G Bolden & Associates offers it as well. Check with some of your local CPA firms. I have clients that are not in my city, but I handle everything virtual.
Click to view DallasPayroll's profile Professional DallasPayroll 8 posts since
Oct 10, 2007
2. Re: Payroll - best options for a small business Oct 11, 2007 9:53 AM
in response to: VinoNow
There are many many payroll services. Our firm, Dallas Payroll provides the same service as ADP and is much more cost effective. You can check us out at http://www.dallaspayroll.com. To find a local payroll service I would recommend a Google search for Payroll Service in your city. Example: Payroll Service in Dallas.
Click to view gemwest's profile Start-up gemwest 1 posts since
Oct 11, 2007
3. Re: Payroll - best options for a small business Oct 11, 2007 10:19 AM
in response to: VinoNow
Look into Paychex as an alternative. We have used them for a number of years and they are competitive, accurate and very flexible.
Click to view fjuarez's profile Start-up fjuarez 3 posts since
Oct 11, 2007
4. Re: Payroll - best options for a small business Oct 11, 2007 10:31 AM
in response to: VinoNow

Hi,
You might also want to try Ameri-Chex they have been very reliable, reasonably priced and good customer service.....
Click to view aityena's profile Start-up aityena 1 posts since
Oct 28, 2007
5. Re: Payroll - best options for a small business Oct 28, 2007 4:25 PM
in response to: VinoNow
Be very careful who you trust your payroll processing to. The industry is not regulated, and if there is a problem, you are on the hook with the IRS and your employees, and not the payroll processor.

We found this out the hard way. Several years ago, we signed up with a small payroll processing outfit, because they were willing to work with our back office automation needs and about 20% of what ADP charged. After an initial rocky start to get things lined up between our system and theirs, it went pretty smoothly...for four payroll cycles (monthly). Then they missed a tax payment. We called up, they already knew about it, and they paid within the week and the penalties and interest. We started watching the transactions carefully. Two months later, they filed Chapter 7.

And the owner took all our tax payments that month with him.

If you find yourself in the same situation, let me save you some time. Just pay the IRS directly, pay your employees again, then immediately find the bankruptcy case and get in touch with the assigned bankruptcy trustee. We wasted a lot of time finding out that unless you are talking in amounts of greater than $500K, the IRS will not help with either pursuing the perp, or extending any forebearance measures; the state attorney's office will be completely uninterested; likewise the FBI (interstate funds transfer) or US Postal Service. Small business owners are completely on their own.

What saved us in this incident? My "business paranoia", which caused me to insist:
  1. We set up a Bank of America "private account", and made our existing checking account a "public account". From that time onward, literally the only entities who know about the private account are BofA and the owners of the company; it is never divulged elsewhere under any circumstances. The public account became known as the "E-xfer", or "electronic transfer" account. Our banker was very helpful in getting this set up for us, and it didn't cost us anything extra with our existing commercial account because we kept a large enough balance.
  2. We still handled all actual payroll issuing, and "firewalled" the payroll processor to just handling the taxes, which required special procedures to set up on both sides because the default payroll processing model is all funds are deposited with the processor and the processor cuts the checks or generates the direct deposit.
If we had set up the way they normally expected, our entire payroll would have disappeared that month. We would have never survived that. It put a pinch on our cash flow, but we still survived (and are thriving today). As luck would have it, I had a project that put me in the city of the payroll processor's offices as this was unraveling. I was able to find the office and confront the owner on the very day he was moving out of the office, but it was an unsatisfying encounter (he lawyered up). We're still trying to recover the funds from him by working with the IRS.

After the initial scramble to pay the IRS, we turned back to our CPA to temporarily handle payroll for a few cycles while we surveyed the payroll processor industry. We now process our payroll through PeachPay, after adding the following requirements to the above.
  1. Verify that at no point is our data ever shipped offshore. We're scared witless that the SSN's will be hijacked in a mass identity theft, and our only recourse is retaining legal counsel in a foreign nation. This is why Bank of America payroll processing lost out in our survey; they could not demonstrate satisfactorily that the data does not ever leave the country.
  2. "Two strikes" rule: one anomaly in processing allowed per year; terminate immediately on second anomaly in the year.
  3. Run the check cutting during the first six months of payroll cycles completely by ourselves. We insisted upon being able to use the payroll processing service as just a fancy "generate the numbers" system for the first six months. Each cycle we would plug in the wages into the payroll processor's web site and copy out the taxes, withholdings, etc., then manually go to EFTPS (for the IRS) and state unemployment insurance web sites to file the payments (which were electronically linked to our public account). This was a real pain, and if I had to do it all over again I would hesitate a long time before committing to it.
Hope this helps, I never want another small business owner to have to go through what I did.

Even after all these precautions, we still worry about this, although practically we have settled for the status quo for the time being. Our nightmare scenario goes like the following. Whoever we pick, no matter how big or how flawlessly they have processed for many others for years and years, decides one day to send a portion of the processing offshore. Unbeknownst to them, the folks offshore scoop up all payments in one of the payroll cycles (likely end of calendar year when big bonuses are commonly transferred around). We get left out in the cold again, but this time there isn't even the emotional satisfaction of knowing that the perps could spend time in Club Fed, because it happened offshore.

There is another area for fraud that could be fixed in the shorter term. We wish Bank of America (or some bank, somewhere) would offer a self-managed electronic transfer accounts system, so we could create on demand new accounts that are tied to our private/primary account, but always defined with a maximum cap and optional expiry date. We could then control which account each vendor has access to, how much they could draw out, and optionally how long before the account withdrawl permission drops back to zero. Today, more than just a few vendors have shared access to our E-xfer account, we have to manually manage transfers from the private account, and I know it is only a matter of time before an excessive withdrawl is performed causing a cascade of problems for our other vendors.

Longer term, as we continue to grow, we're working out how to inexpensively insource this function, much as we prefer to outsource it. The chain of data custody is simply too obscure and unguaranteed for our comfort level going forward, and we're always going to be the liable party in the immediate term (and for all practical purposes, forever). The capacity for fraud is simply too great to ignore, and even with the big processors little guys like us just get trampled when push comes to shove. My preference is a market-enforced regulation, but I've yet to find a payroll processor who is bonded and insured with a Lloyd's-grade underwriter with a gold-plated Fitch rating. I'd really rather be able to make a claim on someone who absconds with
the funds and get immediately paid by an underwriter (who in turn will
put their significant resources to work on finding and apprehending the
perp). In the absence of that, I would settle for a regulatory environment that is actually enforced.
Click to view LUCKIEST's profile SCORE LUCKIEST 7,935 posts since
Aug 6, 2007
6. Re: Payroll - best options for a small business Oct 28, 2007 5:31 PM
in response to: VinoNow
You have received some very good answers to your Payroll question.
This is a good time of year to start with a payroll processing service. Going live Jan 1 would be great.
Another thought to save money. Switch to a bi - weekly payroll. That would cut your costs in half.
As you can see there is NO one option. ADP has a great track record, has been around a long time,
Do you have an accountant?? Where is your company located??
Good luck, LUCKIEST
Click to view DallasPayroll's profile Professional DallasPayroll 8 posts since
Oct 10, 2007
7. Re: Payroll - best options for a small business Oct 29, 2007 11:04 AM
in response to: LUCKIEST
aityena,

I am so sorry to hear about your problems with a local payroll service. This is always a possibility with a service that transfers your payroll tax payments from your account to their account and then from their account to the IRS. Any service that processes tax payments in that manner is not only setting you up for possible IRS liabilities but is also useing your money to reap additional profits from the interest earned on your funds. This is not only a problem with a small service, but you are not protected with even the large firms. Even large companies can fall from grace (ENRON).

Our service does not process tax payments in this manner and many other services have recognized this liability. We calculate and authorize the IRS to draft your account directly. This is the best way to protect the payroll service and the customer. With this type of processing, you can reap the benefits from the customer service, special processing capabilities, and personal attention that can only be offered by the smaller companies.
Click to view Ed O'Gee's profile Mogul Ed O'Gee 215 posts since
Oct 25, 2007
8. Re: Payroll - best options for a small business Oct 29, 2007 8:30 PM
in response to: VinoNow
BofA has a free service for it's customers, most of the major banks have a free or reduced price service that is perfect for business owners who don't have complex payrolls. If you have some complex needs I'd take the suggestion of others can call Paychex or ADP
Click to view Lighthouse24's profile Mogul Lighthouse24 2,396 posts since
Oct 10, 2007
9. Re: Payroll - best options for a small business Nov 8, 2007 10:55 AM
in response to: aityena
aityean, thanks for taking the time to share your experience --- glad your "paranoia" allowed you to stay afloat through it all. I think your experience and the suggestions you offered in your post would make a good submission to the STORIES section of this website.
Click to view SOLUTIONSHR's profile Professional SOLUTIONSHR 7 posts since
Nov 13, 2007
10. Re: Payroll - best options for a small business Dec 6, 2007 10:47 AM
in response to: VinoNow

Hi, just saw your post. I am one of the managing partners in SOLUTIONS Human Resources. We provided customized Payroll, Human Resources and Training solutions for small businesses. We are often less expensive that some of the larger companies like ADP and I fell we provided superior service. I would be happy to provide you with a quote. You can visit our WEB Site at www.solutionshr.com.
Click to view Payroll Place's profile Start-up Payroll Place 4 posts since
Dec 9, 2007
11. Re: Payroll - best options for a small business Dec 9, 2007 10:11 AM
in response to: VinoNow

ADP prices are way too high along with many other payroll companies. I have a payroll business called Payroll Place and our prices are MUCH lower than ADP's (less than half). One thing that separates my company from the rest is it does not matter if your pay cycle is weekly, bi-weekly, semi-monthly, or monthly. The price is still the same. Payroll Place is a full service payroll but very affordable; only a fraction of the price that other companies are charging.

If you are interested in learning more about Payroll Place or getting a quote, you may visit our website at http://www.payrollplace.com or call 866-535-1817.

Good luck to you!

Kathy
Payroll Place, LLC
Phone: 866-535-1817
Fax: 773-314-0413
mailto:info@payrollplace.com
Visit our website at http://www.payrollplace.com/
"Finally...A payroll service you can afford"
Click to view LUCKIEST's profile SCORE LUCKIEST 7,935 posts since
Aug 6, 2007
12. Re: Payroll - best options for a small business Dec 9, 2007 11:52 AM
in response to: Payroll Place
Payroll Place, Good marketing. I am a Quickbooks Consultant and quite a few of my clients use outside
payroll services (other than ADP). I will be in touch with you, Monday or Tuesday.
Good luck, LUCKIEST
Click to view CorpCons08's profile Mogul CorpCons08 1,128 posts since
Nov 14, 2007
13. Re: Payroll - best options for a small business Dec 9, 2007 12:27 PM
in response to: Payroll Place
Kathy,

Take your marketing a bit further. Make a post in business announcements and tell us about your business. Give us your background to show us why we should refer customers to use your service. I visited your website and did not get the information I would be looking for to make a qualified referral to you. How do we know you didn't start this business yesterday with no experience in payroll processing? You are in an industry where you are dealing with corporate finances, taxes, and employee benefits. These are areas where mistakes are crucial. I commend you for your entrepreneurial efforts, now take it a step further and tell us WHY we should use PayrollPlace.

CorpCons08
Click to view DallasPayroll's profile Professional DallasPayroll 8 posts since
Oct 10, 2007
14. Re: Payroll - best options for a small business Dec 10, 2007 11:08 AM
in response to: VinoNow
Not only are ADP's prices too high, but they are useing your payroll tax money to pad their prices. Dallas Payroll is also a payroll service that charges much less than ADP and provides better customer service. Plus we don't hold your payroll taxes in our bank account. We never transfer payroll taxes from your bank account to our bank account. We also develope and maintain our own software, so we can make adjustments to accept just about any form of data file for input. We have been in business since 1971 and are owned and managed by a CPA.

Visit us at http://www.dallaspayroll.com give us a call at 214-553-0700
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