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Click to view Lighthouse24's profile Founders Lighthouse24 2,402 posts since
Oct 10, 2007
15. Re: Sue or not to Sue ??? Mar 30, 2008 1:07 PM
in response to: The Expert
You may be "preaching to the choir" here. Lawsuits are expensive, time-consuming, and not the least bit fun. For a small business, they can be a huge (nearly overwhelming) distraction, so it's not something any of us want to do unless we have to. I've met and spoken with thousands of legitimate business owners over the years, and I can't think of a single one who ever filed a lawsuit before other possible options were exhausted (though I can think of several who had to defend against ridiculous claims -- but then you can't simply choose to "not participate" if you're the defendant).

Have you posted this message in other social networks? Again, it seems to me that the most potent catalyst for change are the people who vote for legislators and who sit on juries.
Click to view LUCKIEST's profile SCORE LUCKIEST 8,118 posts since
Aug 6, 2007
16. Re: Sue or not to Sue ??? Mar 30, 2008 3:27 PM
Sue or not to Sue, Today New York Times, Business Section
"The Foreclosure Machine" An industry (Lawyers) Thrives on Housing Woes.
An army of law firms who represent mortgage lenders, have been
raking in mounting profits. They get paid by the volume.
Again LUCKIEST
Click to view The Expert's profile Mogul The Expert 71 posts since
Oct 13, 2007
17. Re: Sue or not to Sue ??? Mar 30, 2008 4:16 PM
in response to: LUCKIEST
If we are to be saved as a nation, do you think it is time we created a grass root movement - individuals who pledge not to join unfair class action suites or sue others. And if this becomes a large segment of the population vow only to do business with like minded individuals ?
Click to view amspcs's profile Mogul amspcs 574 posts since
Oct 18, 2007
18. Re: Sue or not to Sue ??? Mar 30, 2008 5:55 PM
Many years ago I was told by a very wise person: When two entities sue each other, there is only
one winner...the attorney. My observations and experience over the years confirm that this is oh so true.

Unfortunately and regrettably, litigation is extremely expensive, completely out of the question for most small businesses.This is particularly so when a small business finds itself up against a larger business because in this case, justice has nothing remotely to do with either the law or what or who is 'right'...it has everything to do with which side has the largest 'war chest' and can out-legal-expense the other. I realize this is a very sad commentary on our society and legal system, but it is absolutely the case.

As a small businessperson, I am seriously looking into pre-paid legal services to handle any future legal issues that might arise. . Anybody have any stories or experiences to share about pre-paid? I am very curious to find out if worthwhile or not.

BG
www.MerchantServices-help.com
Click to view The Expert's profile Mogul The Expert 71 posts since
Oct 13, 2007
19. Re: Sue or not to Sue ??? Mar 31, 2008 12:31 PM
in response to: amspcs

Would you, as a small business owner be interested in joining a grass root level movement - where you pledge not to join unnecessary, unrealistic class action law suites and not to initiate individual law suites of the same kind ?

We HAVE to do something soon - this issue is eating our country alive...
Click to view Blujuju's profile Start-up Blujuju 1 posts since
Mar 31, 2008
20. Re: Sue or not to Sue ??? Mar 31, 2008 12:59 PM
I LOVE this forum. Pragmatism meets Idealism. Of course we need tort reform. McDonald's case is a great example of the complexity though. You have to ask yourself if you were "injured" and you knew that you could legally take enough money to retire on as a result, would you really walk away? I don't think just asking everyone to play nice w/ that potential in place just won't work.

That case hurt a corporation that never should have been hit as hard as it was. But where we really need reform is in Family Law and no one is talking about it because it's policitally incorrect to do so. With divorce rates as high as they are nearly all of us have been damaged in one way or another by a system that is not interested in the "family" and is only interested in transfering wealth from one person to another according to their agenda. But that's another forum, I'm sure!
Click to view amspcs's profile Mogul amspcs 574 posts since
Oct 18, 2007
21. Re: Sue or not to Sue ??? Mar 31, 2008 1:18 PM
in response to: The Expert
I think I'd be interested in a movement that reforms the entire joke of a legal system. Granted our system
is probably superior to anything else out there in the world ,but's its far far far from perfect. Gotten to the point that justice is not for everyone, just for those who can afford it. Don't believe me?...just ask OJ. Greedy lawyers, disinterested judges, lots of fault to spread around. Has anybody noticed that half the legal 'stuff' out there...laws, requirements, procedures, etc...is all made BY lawyers for the benefit of...you guessed it, lawyers...so they can have lots of work to do for which they can charge mega-bucks per hour?
Click to view Iwrite's profile Mogul Iwrite 1,133 posts since
Dec 29, 2007
22. Re: Sue or not to Sue ??? Mar 31, 2008 3:59 PM
in response to: amspcs
You left out the politicians. Please don't forget them.

But lets be honest, most large companies are no better than the lawyers and politicians. How many business scandals does it take before we admit that our system is sick? And most of us are modeling our business practices after whom? How can anyone expect to be different when you model your business after the companies we complain about?

Ethics and morals are things to be studied instead of practiced and lived.

And to all those using the McDonald's case as an example of a broken system, please get the facts. This was not a frivolous lawsuit. Check it out here: www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm or here www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald's_coffee_case or here www.library.findlaw.com/1999/Nov/1/129862.html

I think it is brave and admirable to want to trust man to do the right thing without being forced but we haven't shown ourselves mature enough for this to be our reality.
Click to view Lighthouse24's profile Founders Lighthouse24 2,402 posts since
Oct 10, 2007
23. Re: Sue or not to Sue ??? Mar 31, 2008 7:03 PM
in response to: Iwrite

Ah, there's the issue . . . determining the "right" thing. In the McDonald's coffee case:

  • Many people believed that the big company did the wrong thing, and that justice was served when the jury awarded Ms. Liebeck $2.86 million.

  • Others believed that it was not McDonald's fault -- since the coffee that was allegedly "too hot" was actually 16 degrees cooler than the coffee dispensed by the brand of home coffee maker that sits in the kitchens of 157 million American homes, and since McDonald's had nothing to do with Ms. Liebeck's decision to take the lid off the cup of hot coffee to add cream and sugar while holding it between her knees in a motor vehicle.

  • Still others might have been inclined to not only dismiss the suit against McDonald's, but also to criminally indict the grandson (after all, what kind of person lets his 79-year-old grandmother sit in the passenger seat of his car with a cup of hot coffee between her knees trying to add cream and sugar to it by herself?).

The significant thing is the way jurors explained their rationale for awarding punitive damages ($2.7 million of the total): "McDonald's can afford it." That makes it seem like the prevailing morality in this case -- i.e., the "right" thing -- was based on resentment ("let's stick it to anybody who has more than we do"), rather than justice. Presumably, that's why the amount was reduced by the judge, appealed, and then eventually settled.
Click to view DomainDiva's profile Founders DomainDiva 1,763 posts since
Oct 10, 2007
24. Re: Sue or not to Sue ??? Mar 31, 2008 8:03 PM
A pledge NOT TO SUE?????

I will agree with the commenters that have singled out the 'tort idiocy'. But a blanket agreement not to sue? No. Never.

If it had not been for my attorney, we would have lost a pice of property in a limited partnership when the limited partner got completely crazy on us. If it had NOT been for our attorney we would have ended up in court in a huge lawsuit.

There are some things that cannot be solved with a handshake, and SHOULD NOT be solved with a handshake.
Click to view The Expert's profile Mogul The Expert 71 posts since
Oct 13, 2007
25. Re: Sue or not to Sue ??? Apr 1, 2008 2:11 PM
in response to: DomainDiva
Since trying to get politicians to take over 'tort reform' is a lost cause, what do you think will be the alternative.
Isnt it time WE the people, started behaving like adults.
Is there anything we can do together to make this happen
Any suggestions ?
Think how wonderful life would be if we could go back to the days of 'House on the Praire".... Where a hand shake and a person's word carried more weight than signed legal documents.
Click to view DomainDiva's profile Founders DomainDiva 1,763 posts since
Oct 10, 2007
26. Re: Sue or not to Sue ??? Apr 7, 2008 7:48 PM
in response to: The Expert
If we really believe that is an one another world, then we all need to act like it. Trouble is, greedy, horrid people will try to take advantage of morally intelligent people.

You can't change human nature.
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