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8 Replies Last post: Apr 23, 2009 12:20 AM by cutcomp

Workers Comp Insurance Questions (Calculating into Overhead, Finding It, etc.)

Jan 21, 2008 11:31 AM

Click to view cognitive77's profile Professional cognitive77 11 posts since
Oct 17, 2007
If there's one business expense I absolutely hate, it has to be shopping for insurance. I personally believe that any insurance is a mandatory scam. You need it, sometimes use it, but get the shaft when you have to use it or are penalized when you have to use it. But I digress.

I'm a newer contractor. We only work with Union Millwrights. I need workers comp and I'm assuming liability insurance for my crews. I've been told two different things. One, that the rate I pay for insurance is based off of payroll for that craft for the entire year, and Two, that it's based off of year end sales. Also, how exactly do I calculate insurance into my hourly rate that I bill for each worker? I'm looking for a base % I can apply to that rate. And lastly, can anyone here recommend a GOOD insurance contact?

Thanks.
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Click to view LUCKIEST's profile SCORE LUCKIEST 7,938 posts since
Aug 6, 2007
1. Re: Workers Comp Insurance Questions (Calculating into Overhead, Finding It, etc.) Jan 21, 2008 4:10 PM
77, Welcome and good luck. You ask interesting questions. Workers Comp is usually based on payroll.
Where are you located (State) You say that you are a newer contractor.
O K.In business you have to spend money to make money. I am a QuicksBook Consultant
Everybody in business should have an Accountant, a Lawyer and an Insurance Agent.
There have been a few posts recently from Insurance agents looking for new clients.
Under Members you should add a few words about you and your business.
.
Good luck, LUCKIEST
Click to view cognitive77's profile Professional cognitive77 11 posts since
Oct 17, 2007
2. Re: Workers Comp Insurance Questions (Calculating into Overhead, Finding It, etc.) Jan 21, 2008 9:13 PM
in response to: LUCKIEST
My business is incorporated in IL, and we only do work in IL and MO (primarily MO).
Click to view Lighthouse24's profile Mogul Lighthouse24 2,396 posts since
Oct 10, 2007
3. Re: Workers Comp Insurance Questions (Calculating into Overhead, Finding It, etc.) Jan 22, 2008 9:56 PM
I don't like shopping for insurance either (but you have to in order to keep rates competitive).

Both things you were told are correct -- just two different questions.

The three criteria that insurance companies generally use to determine the amount of an employer's workers comp insurance premiums are:
1. Payroll;
2. Employer Classification (premiums are higher if the types of workers you employ have an inherently higher exposure to injuries - e.g., roofers compared to secretaries);
3. Experience Modification Factor (or "mod" where an individual employer is compared with other employers within the classification based upon the frequency of accidents and severity of injuries - more incidents result in higher premiums).

The three criteria that insurance companies generally use to determine the amount of an employer's liability insurance premiums are:
1. Sales;
2. Type of Services Provided or Products Sold;
3. The Role of the Employer (in the process of providing the services or products).

Sorry, I have no recommendations for a specific carrier or underwriter, but you do generally get better rates if you make it an "all or nothing deal" when you ask for quotes (i.e., have agents or firms give quotes on the basis of underwriting all of your business insurance coverage, not just one type of policy).

Hope this helps. Best wishes.
Click to view cognitive77's profile Professional cognitive77 11 posts since
Oct 17, 2007
4. Re: Workers Comp Insurance Questions (Calculating into Overhead, Finding It, etc.) Jan 22, 2008 10:19 PM
Here are some of my problems.

1. Insurance agents/brokers can't typically seem to find a classification code for Millwright work. It's not rocket science, as Millwright work tends to be pretty specific (working with nuts/bolts, welding, mechanical pieces of power plants).

2. Insurance rates are typically based on per $100 of payroll. How do other contractors here factor in insurance overhead in their rates?
Click to view Lighthouse24's profile Mogul Lighthouse24 2,396 posts since
Oct 10, 2007
5. Re: Workers Comp Insurance Questions (Calculating into Overhead, Finding It, etc.) Jan 23, 2008 12:39 AM
in response to: cognitive77
Where a millwright code exists, it is generally an expensive classification. My suggestion would be to see an insurance auditor or consultant in who specializes in workers comp classification cases.

As for the second issue, I don't determine billable costs that way, so I can't comment -- but maybe other contractors do and can.
Click to view proInsurance's profile Professional proInsurance 7 posts since
Nov 17, 2008
6. Re: Workers Comp Insurance Questions (Calculating into Overhead, Finding It, etc.) Nov 26, 2008 2:04 PM
Payroll ( and your cost of subs - their payroll you pay them) for work comp is correct. I tiell my contracting clients to take the rate they pay for the classification; say millwrights 8.00 / $100 of payroll right out of their check, bank it, as you'll have to pay that amount at audit... unless of course they can provide a workers comp certifictae... but many can't.
Click to view aammari's profile Professional aammari 5 posts since
Apr 15, 2009
7. Re: Workers Comp Insurance Questions (Calculating into Overhead, Finding It, etc.) Apr 22, 2009 12:39 AM
If you are in california call this agency I got all my business insurance from they are very helpfull
altimainsurance.com good luck
Click to view cutcomp's profile Mogul cutcomp 28 posts since
Apr 23, 2009
8. Re: Workers Comp Insurance Questions (Calculating into Overhead, Finding It, etc.) Apr 23, 2009 12:20 AM
In Illinois and Missouri, Workers Compensation premium for almost all types of employment is based on a rate times $100 of payroll. There is a specific class (and manual rate) for millwright work, and it is fairly expensive. In Illinois, the actual manual rate used will vary from one insurer to another, unless the employer is in the Assigned Risk Plan. Many smaller or newer businesses end up being insured in the Assigned Risk Plan, as insurers are often unwilling to underwrite them in the "voluntary market." Although an employer can't be turned down by the Assigned Risk plan, the cost of insurance there is much more expensive than what it would be in the voluntary market. Any licensed property and casualty insurance agent in Illinois can access the Assigned Risk plan, but you would be much better off if you can find coverage in the voluntary market.